dealing with new neighbour's sticky-fingered kids (long-HELP!)

[majorstress]

My dds are 3.5 y and 15 m and we are at work/nursery all day, getting home about 5:30. We are greeted daily with 2 cute girls age 4 and 7 on the doorstep who are bored silly and desperate to play. I won't let dd1 play out in street with them, and at first I was so glad she was making local friends I welcomed them in. Offers to go into their house are rare and we have some disquiet anyway about the family. Maybe I'm just incompetent mum-wise but I now find I can't cope with them all, but feel rotten saying no go away (and they are VERY persistent). I find they don't actually play well together, dd1 is tired and wants to watch tv or play her fav, hide'n'seek. They won't, just want to throw the toys around or hug, or worse, pick up the poor baby who is not keen. So they mainly pester me, while dd1 sulks and dd2 does something hazardous behind my back. I end up doing puzzles with neighbors kid, which I have never had time to do with mine! DD2 is tired and demanding to be fed, and I have to get the dinner ready for everyone else too. New garden is full of rubble, glass and a pond in process of demolition, so can't chuck em out there. The latest is the 7 year old keeps asking to have everything we own as a gift, which generous dd1 hands over, including peeling the iron-on badges off her shirt, and yesterday the requests included my crystal ornaments from the display case! And some toys are missing, though probably just thrown somewhere far far away. I so want us to fit in, but I am the one who needs someone to take MY kids for a few minutes, not more kids to handle!!!

Weve had this at home and on holiday. We have a caravan and go there every summer, and these 3 kids drive us mad. They come running into our caravan, break toys, throw the garden furniture about, make a lot of noise and generally make us feel like we want to go home. I was under the impression that their parents didnt give a shit but actually they were very strict. i think they just came over to ours to play up. final straw came when ds asked to have a go on the one boys go-cart and he said no. We'd had them over all week! After that i told them if they were going to be spiteful then they couldnt play with ds's toys either.

The one at home is a complete pain in the arse. If we dont answer the door he bangs and bangs it until you cant hear yourself think, and as if thats not bad enough, his mother keeps coming round asking to "borrow" stuff (and never gives it back). I did feel sorry for them as they dont have much but i dont see why i should spend my wages on someone elses kid. She sent him out one cold, windy january night in shorts and slippers to come asking for things. unbelievable. In the end it got so bad i started to leave the curtains closed all day and ignore the door, i was pregnant and couldnt stand the idea of a row with them. (his mother has a bit of a short fuse lets just say)think theyve taken the hint now.....i hope. If they start again though im going to HAVE to say something.

Good luck with those neighbor from hell type characters nightowl. I have to say that to be fair my pesky visitors always ask a parent before coming in, thereby actually they taught me one of tigermoths golden rules (many thanks-I will implement all of them immediately). Another kid that was with them one day when I was in one of my daft "how lovely, come on in and do whatever" moods, refused to enter saying she didn't really know us-smart girl and parents. I guess the transition from toddler to kid is as fast as everything else in this mum business, and I am still being caught out on a daily basis! How could I be so dense?

I don't know what age i will let my two out on there own, dd is 5 and ds is 4. But they will probably be after they are 10 or so. But the neighbours across the grass from us,( there is a sort of grass part with paths each side to differnt houses etc) every morning without fail on the school holidays they are out there from about 8am on-wards. she is always shouting at them, telling them to get out, and the youngest of her broods is 6 but she was playing out at the age of 4. And when me and my husband were doing the garden at the beginning of the week, there was these baby twins, walking around, could of only been about 2 at the most!! Maybe i am too strict or something, but I wouldn't let them out there without me. Also one of the boys threw a large piece of wood into our back garden over the wall. my husband threw ir right back and had a real mouthful at him, where was the mum you ask? The answer to that is , i don't know. He didn't do it after that. All the kids are always playing around our front garden, which i don't usually mind, but when they start throwing things, thats when i draw the line.

In response to the playing outside question, I let DS1 play outside without me from the time he started school and DS2 out when he was three (but only with his older brother who I guess was only five)

BUT

we live in a very quiet estate with 50 houses around a large green. It's like a giant playground. The neighbours are all lovely and we all look out for each others kids. I guess they are being raised by a middle-class village. Gangs of children invade the houses. It's great fun really. Some of the neighbours kids even call me 'Mam' by mistake!!

nerdgirl, my cousin lives on an estate like that, I always envied her and now I envy you too!

nerdgirl, I think it's great that children can play out in your area so easily. I am glad my boys have been able to do this too, though it's not without problems.

It sounds like most of the families in your 'village' are happy for their children to play out on the green. I wish it was the same in our area. I know of several older children from different families a stones throw away from us who never come out to play. Two 10 year olds and an 11 year old. My son knows them, but not well. He would love to play with them but they are never, ever allowed out.

In each case the families are IMO very, very middle class - sadly, most of the children who play out in our street come from working class or less consciusly middle class families IMO. I'd say we were a middle class family, but I feel we've broken ranks in some people's eyes by allowing our children to play out. I find that really sad. I hope that's not how things are in other areas. To be honest this is one reason why I want to leave london and live in Devon.

While we were trying for 9 years to have dd1, I saw the little girl next door reach the age of 8 with no little friends at all, never even going out in their own garden much. I resolved not to be like that, I grew up with total freedom in a rural area. But now I am finding things are not so simple! and city boy dh is totally of the lock em up till they're 30 camp after what we went through to get them, and with dd1 drawing a depiction of Soham for him age 3 that really did it. It is all so so much harder that I expected, lately I often wish we had failed to have them in the end-ALMOST!

nerdgirl - you don't live near me do you? Your description sounds very much like where I live, and there are always children outside, though whenever any of the littlies are there there will always be at least one parent keeping an eye on things. Having said that I don't yet let ds (2.5) stay outside under the supervision of another parent for more than the minute or so it might take to, say, fetch a drink. Between that and his outdoors-orientated nursery ds hardly ventured indoors last summer except to sleep!

hi there, just to add my 1p worth, i am very woried with the way some people have their kids all over the place. it's one thing to make arrangements with parents, but to let your kids wonder around the place and not even know if they're safe!!

I sometimes feel i am too over protective but I see now i am just smart.

Majorstress---- I commend you and alot of the other posters for being so kind to these kids.
how about if the next time they come round you can say, I'm just unwinding right now but here are some of the puzzles we were doing. and give them the puzzles to take home with them.

i do feel that you are being taken for granted at the very best and taken for a mug at the worse. I dont wish to make you feel bad and please dont take this the wrong way but your kids seem not to like the strays comin over, dd2 is obv fighting for your attention.

Try and be selfish and put you and your kids first.

On the playing out question - I have lovely memories of a childhood spent, largely, playing out in the street. Lots of cycling, roller-skating, hide and seek, tag, occassional trips to the sweet-shop, visiting a donkey in a local field, a good mix of friends - both boys and girls and a wide (ish) age range. But I also remember pretty strict rules - exactly how far I was allowed away from home, exact times to come home by, and, if I went to someone's house I had to call and let Mum know. My mum had an old school hand bell which she used to ring if she wanted me to come home. I think I was allowed out from about 8 or 9. Sounds lovely - but I can also remember doing some pretty stupid things including playing on a building site and roller-skating down a particularly steep hill, crossing lots of driveways without stopping. On the one hand I think there can be a tendency nowadays to over-protect and kids need to learn about risk and need to explore the world on their own. On the other hand - mine are only 3 and 1 so I haven't reached decision time yet. I hope I feel able to give them the freedom I had because it did make for a lovely childhood - who'd swap all that fresh air and freedom for a nintendo and the tv? IMHO (as someone who fully admits she has yet to put her money where her mouth is) the risks are actually, statistically, pretty small, but the benefits are huge.

My older 2 played "outside" for the first time last week and they are 8 and 6. We don't live on an estate, but a road that runs from the beach to the school - fairly busy.

They were allowed on the pavement out front - no crossing roads - and their boundaries were 3 houses along either side of ours. They were quite happy whizzing up and down on their scooters.

They did this whilst DD2 (4yo) was still at nursery last week - not keen on her being out front as I think she's too young.

Hatter,I have to agree with you, but again mine are 4 and 1 so will not be playing out on their own this summer. But I can remember at that age going along to the end of my street to knock on my friend's door to ask if she was coming out to play. How times change

Dh and I made the decision on when DD would be allowed out to play some time ago. We each grew up in very different areas, and by very different rules, but have come to the same conclusion......when she's about thirty-five!

champs, it all depends on where you live.

Yes, my two sons do spend quite a bit of time out of my sight playing in their friends houses or out on the green. I don't worry.

I played out at their age and I loved it. I want that kind of childhood for my children. I want them to be able to get on their scooters and call for their friends, join in an impromptu game of power rangers with a gang of 20 kids on the green, feel safe and happy and connected to more than just our home and our family.

Like Hatter had, they have strict rules - no leaving the green, back by 6pm etc.

I also feel like a major influence in the lives of more than my two children. I have a gang of girls and boys who I view as almost sons and daughters to me.

Gill, I doubt I live near you. I'm one of the Irish Mumsnetters.

nerdgirl---- yes it is true. I would love to live in a place where it was safe for kiddies to play out. i am sure your kids love it!! you also know where they are and know they're safe. I deff want to move to somewhere like that.

hatter---- wasn't it lovely wen kids could play out in safety. times were, a child could pop to the corner shop for mummy and come back safe. everyone knew you and shopkeepers too. chemist where i used to live rememner me from my childhood days and they feel like relatives!!

Hi,
I regulary see a family of 4 walk quite a distance to chippie/corner shop alone, all children under 6 the youngest is less then 2

and we live on a very fast road

that is very worrying. hate to sound judgemental.... but are they crazy!!! the dangers??!!!

I have thought of reporting them, bet then thought of the consicences and how i would feel. But then I think about if anything happens to the children

yes.... if something happened, you would feel awful.
are the parents approachable?
maybe if you had a word with the chippie owner, they could talk to the parents?
has it been more than once?
wat am i talkin about, once is enuff!!

Its hard to know whether to let your kids out or not. They are so many dangers nowadays. I used to play out when i was a child at the age of 6. But there is no way i would let my two out, no way. Wouldn't matter where i lived, you never know if someone is watching your kids, and they might take them. but thats just my opinion. Perhaps i am too over protective.