okay then all you fab parenting types - Cappuccino is on her KNEES asking you to help

[Cappuccino]

dd won't eat anything.

she never has eaten much (I'm alarmed by now much earlier dd2 wears her hand-me-down outfits) but now her paediatrician has referred her to a nutritionist because she is too small. She is nearly 6 and when I try to buy her school skirts even the 4-year-old ones hang off her diddy little waist.

She has some feeding problems due to her cerebral palsy but the last time I spoke to her chewing and swallowing therapist she said she was doing really well, and said that maybe 20% of her unwillingness to eat was down to the disability, and 80% was behavioural.

She is a very clever little girl and I think that food has become An Issue. She never ate or drank much, as I said (when she was a baby we used to force water down her with a syringe when it was really hot and she had had nothing to drink) but now she looks at her food and pushes it away without even having a spoonful.

We have tried everything at least once. Stickers. Ignoring it and just bringing on the next course. Praise for good eating. Naughty steps. All sitting down happily for a meal and chatting and just blanking her shenanigans. Trying to talk to her about it. But it gets worse and worse. She barely eats or drinks anything at all. This morning I just left her at the table with her milk (she refused her Ready Brek straight off) for an hour until she drank it. I told her that she wouldn't be ready to go to her grandmas until she had drunk her milk and got dressed. It worked eventually after many tears and everyone's morning being ruined by it, but I don't have time to do this when she's back at school.

I am at the point where I have no patience with this 6-year charade any more and I can't see a way out. When she was at nursery I used to pay extra so they would give her lunch - I didn't need the childcare but I just couldn't face three meals a day. I always feed her things that she likes and that she can easily eat; I give her a good, varied, tasty diet but it all ends in the bin. I can see going to this nutritionist and him saying 'you need to give her this and this' and watching her push it away again. I'm also aware that dd2 could soon see what is happening and join the 'game', and she is a great eater.

can anyone help me with a way out of this? I'm just getting completely past it.

mind you i am not a fab parenting type and most prob shouldnt have commented

and I bribe to high heaven as well

chocolate buttons etc or ice pops

I have started to take the plate away and ignore the moaning mid afternoon that she is hungry even though it makes me want to run away, the moaning that is

If considering yourself a fab parent was a criterion for contributing to a thread on Mnet, I suspect that Mnet would be eerily, even blissfully quiet!

oh and something else: is there an older child, like a teenage girl who she lloks up to? a cousin or a neighbour or a sitter? could you find someone who could be a role model and take your dd out or just come and play with her (for money, if necessary )
or even another adult, though ime spirited girls of six are more likely to listen to/be guided by an older child
obviously you would have to be a bit subtle about it. she sounds a bit savvy to have the wool pulled over the eyes too easily.

I really like the idea that was suggested about abandoning meals as such and just giving lots of snack type portions. It would take the stress away from both of you.
I also wanted to say that as a kid I was a very fussy eater and small. One thing that considerable helped me was when my mum put onto vitamin B supplements. They are an appetite stimulant amongst other things and I clearly remember now asking for extra foods much to my mums surprise. As an adult now I eat a normal healthy diet and dont have to take VitB to do it!

thanks so much for all the suggestions

I'm going to sit down with dh and this thread tonight and come up with an Approach

you are all so lovely as I always knew you were [sobs into hanky]

thank you thank you

will keep you informed

sorry, another thing occurred to me:
I think you should try and be clear what is your objective?
IMHO I think you should try not to think of it in terms of:

Getting DD to eat something
Making DD put on weight
Getting DD to sit at the table and finish a meal

or anything pass/fail like that.

IMHO I think your objective should be: to change her (and the attitude of the whole family) attitude towards food. So that she can start to have a normal relationship with food again.
what she eats or doesn't eat I think should be taken out of the equation i.e. don't reward what she eats, but the fact that she doesn't use eating as a weapon anymore. It has to stop bothering both of you. In your position I would steer clear of making a big fuss about what she eats, or having a run down at the end of the day.

Otherwise the problem is pretty much bound to continue in another form.
(sorry I shall shut up now)

Poor you Cappuccino. It's very hard having a fussy eater but must be even more so with a child with cp as I guess in the back of your mind you're bound to wonder how much the condition has to do with her lack of appetite.

I don't have better suggestions than those already mentioned except to say that as a child I was a truly lousy, awful, pain-in-the-arse of a bad eater. My dd is definitely taking after me but nowhere near as bad as I was because I can remember certain key things about what made me worse such as the focus of attention on my eating, my mother's suppressed (or un-suppressed on very many occasions) rage at me etc. etc. With dd I just give her meals with something she CAN eat and some things she can't and when she says she's finished I estimate if I think she's had enough to deserve a 'pudding' (if, indeed, she even wants a pudding, she's so fussy she doesn't like chocolate, crisps, biscuits etc.) and that's it. At first it drove me mad with worry then I realised she didn't eat any less this way but I was less stressed. And she's definitely improved over the last year. Basically we just stopped talking about how much she ate. Or rather, didn't eat.

Oh, and by the way, I meant to say I used to have huge phobias about food as a child, from being very young, that was partly why I ate so little and of such small variety. But I never told a soul about it. I don't know why I didn't it just seemed impossible to verbalise it. I was 4 stone until I was about 11.

Cappucino you must be SO stressed. It's so worrying when kids won't eat. I remember when dd1 was a toddler and he stopped eating, growing and speaking. We were always up at the nutrition clinic, filling in food diaries and the like. The only thing I actually remember was one woman saying to me that it was better to get choclate down him than nothing at all. At the time it felt like I'd a least been given some options, but I'm not sure how sound the advice was.
He was a toddler and less cunning than a 6 year old. I have never heard of a child starving themselves deliberately. Will she eat when she's hungry? Does she ask for food between meal times? I guess you have to decide whether your ultimate goal is to stand your ground and not be manipulated or give in for a while just to get her to eat.
You are right that food has become an issue and it is her way of exerting control, kids are fab at that
I would suggest you decide a course of action and stick to it. Swapping around probably isn't the best thing for you. She seems to know that it makes you anxious and that it will cause a reaction. If it were me I would ignore. The medical experts would know whether out of sheer bloody mindedness she is capable of doing herself harm or not. I have never heard of it myself, but it takes a nerve of steel to be the mother, watch it happening and not react.
Best of luck to you. I really hope things start to improve soon xx

Hate to say this, but have you tried Osteo-Cranio therapy? It might help her I believe in it and have seen results in many areas so much I think I might go an train for it. We call it SacroCranio Therapy here in the states. She might not really be hungry, it could be a power struggleif she has no energy it is a vicious circle. Please don't say that she hates you....it can't be true. I can't imagine your frustration and worry, I feel for you. See if you can give it a try. The CP can't be helpingit is so much easier to eat if you have an appetite. I 'm sure they could help her with her moods toolet us know how you get on.

yes, that's true. I'd forgotton about that!
We went and had that done with Ds1 during all his problems, it wasn't a miracle fast cure but it REALLY made a difference to his behaviour and general development. He went from being a child who had basically shut down to one that opened up again. really worth a try.

Dr Christopher Green seemed very sensible on eating in Toddler Taming - I'm wondering if there is an eating section in his book on 5-12 year old.

He basically spells out that because you cry, you cajol, you try everything you can you will be the one treated to the performance, whilst she eats better for everyone else.

I think you have to get a lot lot better at pretending not to care.

Sounds a nightmare cappuccino.

I think the idea of a nutrition clinic sounds good (rather than just a dietician) because presumably they can assess what her daily calorific requirements are. I don't know how mobile dd is but maybe her requirements less than usual?

Also even though her chewing andswallowing therapist said she is doing well, maybe this is relative to previous assessments ie better than it used to be but still problematic?

Not the same at all but Ihave struggled for years with ds2 foodwise. I so know what you mean about the nutrionist saying give her this/that. Everyone says it about ds2 and I always say what would you like me to do force it into his mouth? (which i have done on occasion in the past - he just retched continuously and spat it out!) I have come to realise that his great aversion is to "moist" "soggy" "sloppy" foods.

Can dd explain what or why there is a problem?

Good luck

PollyL - some people do just have an aversion to certain textures (anything thats solid but grainy has me running - kidneys, liver, beans... ugh) and my great friend cannot abide dates/bananas/porridge because they're sloppy. Wierd isn't it?

Cappucino - sounds like you got some good advice here. When I was 8 I stopped eating and like you my parents tried everything. When they gave up on that and just ignored me I started eating and found another way to get the attention instead. So it could be worth a try.

Not sure I'm any help whatsoever, but my Mum told me once that she stopped eating completely when she was about 6 or 7. For her it was due to probs at home (she realises afterwards looking back). Her family helped her by sending her to stay with her favourite gran for a month (basically however long it took, and a month did it) and she got some extra attention away from siblings, and having a different person to eat with and eat for seemed to help. She also had a problem because the school's approach back then was to sit there until you'd eaten it, and she often used to sit in the dining room with a teacher staring at a cold plate of tapioca (or whatever) all afternoon.
I know the situation is very different for you and your family, but wondered if there was anything at all in the story that might trigger a new idea?

My own ds is 22 mths and really fussy. We have stopped trying to get him to eat at regular mealtimes and now he has a snack tray that I keep topping up and I leave it in the living room. We still sit together for meals but he is more likely to sit there with his colouring books and we just try and enjoy the time sitting quietly (and I try not to stress!!). He seems to prefer grazing on the go. He also seems to prefer finger foods and definitely not anything requiring cutlery (apart from yogurt), so in order just to get some food inside him this is what we have started with.

Little by little. Really hope things improve for you x

Oh you must be at your wits' end- I am so sorry you are all going through this nightmare. I have a daughter who is very very small and the nutritionist also suggested the self- serve snack things that others have suggested here, and what I found really work are berries and nuts and seeds- my DD is younger but she loves the tiny mouthful that is a raspberry or blueberry or pinenut/pumpkin seed etc.. also they look very pretty and fun to play with on a little plate-mine makes pictures etc although she is littler. I'm sure you've already tried this but if not might be something she feels she has control over? I was very frustrated that mine wouldn't eat "proper" meals but then I think well nuts and seeds and berries are healthy...

hope your chat with dh has been fruitful - echoing dinosaur, pancakes are very good, and popcorn is also a good filling 'snack'

good luck
x

sorry, coming into this rather late, but wondered whether you'd tried doing any cooking with her? Our dd1, who's now 11, has big food ishoos and one of the ways we've found to help her is to encourage her to do lots of cooking. The first time this showed results was when she was about 7 and helped make spaghetti bolognese, and by just asking her to taste it and decide whether it needed more pepper etc she became a lot more enthusiastic about the finished result. (I'm not saying she sat down and ate a huge plateful with great relish or anything, but a result nonetheless.)

Maybe try making muffins/fairy cakes/chocolate crsipie cakes and making a bit of a game about her sneaking a taste of the ingredients. She could also make a big production about serving them to her sister when they're done for a posh afternoon tea or whatever.

Sorry if this is all obvious and you've exhausted the idea years ago!

Have you tried involving her in the problem. At six she is probably old enough to sit her down ans talk to her along the lines of.

Look we have a problem here. You don't seem to want to eat or drink much at home but you seem to be OK at school. How can we solve this? Then maybe make some suggestions and involve her in drawing up a plan of what she can eat each day.

Let her have her way a bit - maybe agree she can have 6 small snacks a day and some of them can be sweets etc but some should be fruit/good stuff.

If she has a bit more control maybe she will stop fighting for it.

Also like the idea of a snack drawer for her that she can access whenever she wants to.

God this must be so hard. Not sure if this is any use at all, but just in case, I was a very fussy eater as a child, as was my sister. For me, I honestly don't think it was about control. It was about having very strong dislikes. I just found some foods disgusting and couldn't bear to eat them (at school, or at home). Didn't matter how much dinner ladies hassled me, I would not eat certain foods.

For my sister, it was definitely about control - she was an attention seeking nightmare. My mother used to make her egg flips - milkshake with an egg in - out of desperation to get some goodness into her. I know salmonella means you aren't supposed to use raw egg these days, but could you try things like milkshakes which are a. treats and b. easy to eat? Soup? You can hide a lot of blended veggies in soup. Maybe inc. potatoes for some carbohydrate ie energy?

If you can find something like that that she will actually eat, then agree with advice about taking a step back and not playing the 'I can really wind mummy up here' game.

Hi, haven't read all the thread, so sorry if this is repetition. My friend's DS went through a time of refusing to eat properly. He was also a very slow eater, and ate little or nothing at lunchtimes at school, as there wasn't the time. He was extremely thin and very lethargic. She was advised to take the pressure off mealtimes if possible. They ended up having a few 'carpet picnics', where they'd put on a movie, then the whole family would sit on a blanket in the living room, and eat a meal. They started off with snacks such as corn chips and dips, celery, chocolate biscuits etc. Then moved onto larger meals. They also didn't mention the food at all, and left him to graze as and when he wanted to. Within a few weeks he began eating more normally.

Have been thinking about this thread since yesterday. It must be really frightening to have a child who won't eat to the degree that it affects their health. You have my greatest sympathy Cappuccino

I can't offer any better advice than others have already given. When ds1 went through a phase - and it was a phase, nothing like as serious as your dd's problem - we found that removing the pressure/attention from the situation and just taking it away after a set time and serving up the next course worked after a couple of weeks. He rotated which meals he played up at and which parent he played up for as well, so we had to make sure we were using the same approach all the time.

I don't know what else to suggest but I hope you get the help you need - it must be awful.