Is my 2 3/4 year old "behind"

[Namelessonsie]

This preschool checklist has me worried.

My DD is massively resistant to toilet training (shouts NO a lot)

Massively resistant to being shown how to hold a pen or scissors properly (shouts NO a lot) - and holds a crayon like fucking squiglet. cbeebies has a lot to answer for on this one...

Massively resistant to using cutlery unless it is the only way to ingest eg super sugary petit filous

Massively resistant to dressing/undressing herself (Mummy do it!)

Avoids other children rather than plays/interacts with them. This one is actually a real worry to me.

I do try, but get stressed in the face of such resistance.

She is however extremely verbal, knows her numbers to 20, some letters, shapes including hexagon, octagon etc, all the planets, and can recognise a space shuttle from a soyuz rocket.

She is also possibly on the autistic spectrum, but not diagnosed just something a child psychologist mentioned.

So, do I worry, or just think she'll get it in time for school!

Thank you

I think the more I have tried to get her to do these things, the more resistant she has become because she knows I CARE about these things - while stuff like naming all the planets I don't give two hoots over - so of course she does it.

I suspect she might be rather switched on really.

Lol. my dd2 whos jyst turned 2, shouts no all day. Dont worry about toilet training, my dd1 was 31/2 before she was trained.

As for cutlery, shes almost 5 and still holds her spoin funny when eating a yoghurt or soup. Most ends up back in the bowl lol.

She had never used scissors until she started nursery at 4. Now she cuts out great.

Relax kids tend to do things in their own time. My hv told me not to panic about the potty training that she would do it in her own time - and she did

I'm in the developmental phase/ it may yet pass, club. If she is mildly ASD (autocorrect ASDA ) this would explain the non-integration, but I'd still say that it's not too late to go through a change in this respect.

A lot of what you describe sounds like manipulation rather than lack of ability. My son is 4 and is still reluctant to dress himself; basically he's lazy. My DD is 2.5 and has a massive attitude; haven't started to potty train her but I can imagine that being a real battle if she decides 'it's not for her'. At the moment she has a tantrum when she can't stand up to wee, like DS...

My DD is 2.6 and has never dressed herself or used scissors-it hadn't occurred to me that she should be starting to! She also only knows a handful of numbers, hasn't the faintest clue what an octagon is and would probably think a rocket is a bird. And be scared of it. So I'd say don't worry about development in that sense-she sounds like a bright cookie!

No idea about autism though-I don't think I've come across any children that age with diagnoses so I wouldn't know what to be looking for.

Re holding pen/pencil properly and other tools, children learn best through play and interesting activities. I encouraged my dd to draw lots when she was a toddler, and painting too but particularly drawing. I never ever told her how to hold a pencil, I allowed her to do it intuitively. She is now in y1 and the teachers from reception until now have praised her writing and drawing skills.

Just allowing them to express themselves creatively through drawing or whatever allows them build their fine motor skills and of course the muscles in their hands which helps them later on with the more formal writing skills.

I even do the same now with my son, who is the same age as your dd, we have a mini blackboard and we play drawing games with the chalks, drawing different scenes.

My ds will be starting preschool after easter, he's not yet potty trained and the preschool are not bothered. He's not too great at dressing or undressing and can use a spoon for eating but often prefers his hands (he's a fussy eater so I don't care as long as something is going in his mouth - by whatever means!). I think at this age its best to focus on and praise what they can do rather than what they can't. Remember that every child is on a different developmental trajectory and they all have their own little quirks, the preschool and when she enters school will be well used to this.

Have you done the M-CHAT with her?

www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/diagnosis/screen-your-child

I wouldn't worry about anything except for the avoiding children issue.

Everything else is in the realms of normal and just keep persevering.

The avoiding children issue needs exploring though.

she sounds like my DS a year ago, he's now 3.11.

Coincidently he could also name all the planets!! He could could count and recognise numbers to well over 100 and knew all the alphabet but everyday practical things he just didn't seem to get/ try. I remember getting really cross with him over feeding as he wouldn't do it and would want me to feed him, not sure when this changed but he manages to feed himself now- not perfectly but ok compared to other kids his age. Also he wasn't potty trained until 3.3 and i so felt like he was the only child that wasn't and thought he would be going to school in nappies, then he ended up potty training over a week end and was also dry at night within a month!

He also didn't interact that well with other kids but has massively improved over the last year.

Even things like ride on toys, he just couldn't seem to get and you'd see little tinies racing around on them but he can ride a bike which a year ago i would never have dreamed he would be able to do.

I had a really hard time last year as the thoughts he might be autistic had gone through my mind and then his preschool also brought this up. He's now at a new preschool which he loves and has kind of evened out over the last year, he still can't count much higher than he could a year ago but has learnt so much more practical stuff.

Except getting dressed which he still struggles with but we're getting there... slowly

What help do you get re her autism diagnosis?

A lot of the issues you mentioned are probably related.

Fergie can you pop round and give me some hints re my 2 year old who says no to everything?

Can't wait to see this in action , dd is a force to be reckoned with.

OP its impossible to tell from your post, much of it sounds normal. The pen holding for example I would have thought starting school was the point at which they really need to have moved on from the fist grip.

Only on MN have I heard that petit filous are considered junk food. My god.

Oh my God Ferguson, what toddler doesn't eat Petit Filou?

Thanks everyone.

Yes she doesn't do ride on toys either. Just doesn't try them out really and refuses to use the balance bike or scooter. Waste of money they were!

Thanks for the screening link. She comes out as 7 medium risk

My 22m old will
Use spoon (messily)
Count randomly

Wont/doesnt like
Ride on toys (i think maybe they try it but they dont do a lot so boring)
-glad i didnt get a little tikes car
Dressing wont stand still/ not interested
Potty train i take nappy off and she will go very soon on the floor rather than potty

Uses only right hand for scribbling

Just started to play a bit with other kids this week and is hit and miss.
I think she has always been more interested in adults for the communication and attention.

I believe strongly that if a parent has concerns, it's worth getting them checked out.

To be completely transparent, my 3.5yo is currently undergoing assessment for an ASD.

yes get her checked out if you feel there is something wrong, however try and not spend too much time worrying it, this time last year i had loads of tears and worries over DS now a year later he's come on so much

Ds was exactly like this at that age, though the only difference was that he did play with other children. It all started coming together when he turned 3. He still prefers to use his fingers rather than cutlery though!

Goodness! I can't remember when I last provoked that number of indignant responses to a reply of mine - probably never have had so many! It obviously made people 'think', which is one of my aims; and I don't mind being considered 'weird', either!

Certainly, I agree parenting a baby or toddler is never going to be EASY, and there will be a pattern of fairly common behaviours that most children go through, on their way to 'growing up'. But usually these are only 'stages', and the child (and, hopefully, parents) come out intact at the close of each 'stage'.

However, having worked in primary schools for over twenty years, I have seen many children who find school difficult and alien, because they have NEVER been exposed to any regime of discipline or responsibility. That doesn't mean parents have to 'tell off' their children constantly, but somehow should aim for a caring and sensible routine that develops the child's strengths, while minimizing any negative aspects of behaviour in as subtle a way as possible. I agree: not easy, but not impossible either.

You are correct in thinking that it is a very long time since we had our own 'toddler', as he will turn thirty-one this month; but until quite recently I was still supporting kids in pre- and primary school.

I apologize if I have given undue annoyance to parents, and OP, I am confident there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

PS (I didn't know what Petit Filous was, but I now see it is a product from a merger of 51% Yoplait, and 49% Dairy Crest, and often known as YDC.)

However, having worked in primary schools for over twenty years, I have seen many children who find school difficult and alien, because they have NEVER been exposed to any regime of discipline or responsibility.

The OP isn't just allowing her child to yell at all and sundry unchallenged. She has specifically raised it as a concern so implying that it's a result of her inadequate parenting is unhelpful to say the least.

OP, lots of the behaviour you describe could be quite usual for children of your DD's age but they do also fit quite well into those displayed by children with ASD.

If you've read about ASD and your think it fits your DD you would be well advised to ask your GP to refer her for neurodevelopmental assessment. If diagnosed she would have greater access to support in pre-school and early intervention which does make a difference to children with ASD.

I wouldn't worry about the cutlery and pen holding just yet. She's very young for those. If she still can't do them when she is starting school, you might want to consider whether hypermobility is a factor, especially if Autism is a diagnosis being considered for her because the two often come together.

I know preschool isn't compulsory but everyone keeps telling me I should send her!

This isn't a good enough reason to send any child. She is quite young to be gaining much from it and she may find it quite stressful if she still feels uncomfortable around other children. I would wait until you are sure that there is something specific to be gained by sending her. If she does have traits of Autism sending her to preschool isn't likely to help her feel better about her peers unless the situation is very carefully managed.

Have decided with dp that we will monitor it until her birthday in the summer, then get her to the gp if still worried.
She doesn't shout at everyone, just me and sometimes dp, I have boundaries clearly and consistently enforced, just have to pick my battles or everything gets dragged down into a battle of wills and tears on all sides. Her childminder thought she was delightful, if a little shy and obsessive with some things.

I don't have Any advice on if your dd is behind or not but my ds is the same age and has been diagnosed with autism, I would rather he shout no all day everyday as it would mean he could talk but he's still non verbal.
He also will not hold a pen crayon cutlery and will not be potty trained anytime soon as he won't stay sitting on the toilet or potty for more than 2 seconds.

Sounds like a good plan.
My DS is the same age and from what you've described is far behind your DD, although we're pretty sure he does have ASD.
I'd just say trust your instincts don't ignore them and look for ways to prove yourself wrong iyswim. (That's what I did for quite a while)

Have you got a link to this pre-school checklist at all? I've had a google but all I can find is sponsored commercial type things. It'd be a handy thing for me to take to DS's assessment.

I think it was on the bbc news website but can't find it now sorry