discipline?

[Evita]

How do mumsnetters go about 'discipline'? I've got a 17 month old who's generally pretty good but is just beginning now to 'test boundaries'. If I go into a shop with her instead of her just looking around and pointing she now tries to grab everything and yells when she wants something I don't want to buy her. I've always wanted to avoid doing endless 'no no no' with her and have opted to try to distract her instead. But I also feel I need to start being firm (I'm a v. soft mom so far, I've never shouted at her). She poured my glass of water over the sofa today after my telling her over and over not to. So I tried to 'tell her off' but she just laughed, then when she realised I wasn't joking she burst into tears and ran into my arms for a hug. I felt really mean.

Elliot - time out out of the house might be eg taking away from the toys and other children at playgroup and into a corner. Obviously you can't leave them, but I would put ds on my lap, hold him and say nothing for the time-out time. Then say 'are you ready to go back and play nicely with your friends? You can go back and play but you must not hit or we'll have to come and sit like this again ' Same at friends houses. You could also use the additional threat of going home - "it's no fun being at playgroup when you hit other children and then we have to sit on our own. So next time we will have to go home". In shops - either strapped into pushchair, or held firmly by the hand whilst walking along - again no talking or eye contact for the time-out time. If you do it consistently it really works IMO.

Mum2ela - hugs - I would never try and go clothes shopping with my two! Respect from me for managing to get a suit!

ps - at home I put mine on the stairs. But any room where they will be safe on their own for 2-3 mins.

I used time out when ds went through a biting phase - just minute with the door closed - done immediately after the 'offence' was committed. But of course, he grew out of it as well. I'm certainly not above giving ds a biscuit as I strap him into his pushchair - it's a remarkable distraction! On the bus I tell him long involved stories involving buses and doggies and little boys with the same name as him! Bit tedious for me, but ds is rapt.

Twinkie....oooh, I'm so excited for you!!!

Good point aloha - me too. I would also give them a treat for being good if I took them shopping - if they can be good while I get the things I need we'll do something nice like buy a comic, go for a coffee (my sophisticated ds loves that) etc.

Used stairs for timeout (ie sit on bottom step) if misdemeanour committed downstairs. Used bed if committed upstairs (didn't think top step that safe). Think you need somewhere close and immediate. Use step at other people's houses also.

Mum2Ela, I have those feelings too. I want to do everything right at the right time and sometimes dd and I don't coincide. She might feel like playing and I'm shattered and need a moment's peace, then she's fed up and I'm trying to entertain her and she's not into it at all.

When you say she has tantrums, what exactly do you mean? In fact, what exactly IS a tantrum in a child this age? Is it when they struggle and shout when you're doing something like putting shoes on? Or is it that classic full blown fists bashing the floor. I've always wondered how it's defined.

But, hey Mum2Ela, you bought a suit!! I don't think I've attempted to go clothes shopping with dd since she was about 8 months old. Whizzing round the supermarket or chemist or wherever else essential is about the most I ever attempt. She just gets bored silly.

Sorry to keep this thread going, I think it's nearly done. But can anyone shed any light on my last question about what a tantrum actually is?

I think its a personal definition. Tantrum for me means not when my 19 month old is being generally obstructive and refusing to put shoes on etc, but rather, when she is crying and screaming very loudly, appears to have lost control, writhing around and generally behaving completely irrationally. In full scale tantrum mode she refuses to be cuddled / calmed down..and sometimes she gets herself so stirred up that she frightens herself

But that's just my definition!

Evita, DD's tantrums at the moment consist of her getting angry (like she has nooo patience) and throwing herself backwards, which is why I can't do the stair thing with her yet, cos she just throws herself and hits her head on the stair.

When I was a toddler my tantrums would be that I would scream, cry and hold my breath til I passed out!

When my sister was younger (she is 9 now) she would cry until she made herself physically sick. Needless to say a lot of time was spent making sure she did not have tantrums in public places.

But, you see, DD is being an angel today. She has helped me clean both bathrooms, the kitchen, do all the hoovering already this morning, and now she is sitting looking at photo albums!

just a quick thanks for the tips on implementing 'time out' - definitely need to get started as I feel I'm becoming a bit of a soft touch....doesn't help of course that inevitably the hitting (actually not usually hitting, usually grabbing onto an item of clothing and pulling) occurs when ds2 is latched on - I tend to feel somewhat embarrassed/flustered when trying to prise ds1's hands off the victim with one hand, while holding large 3month old in other arm, with boob still out of bra!!

I have just read this thread and feel the same.My DS bites, pulls clothes and hair and screams with temper. Has had to be pulled of kiddies at Nursery just wait until he has to mix with bigger kids he wil have to grow out of it

I love him so much but do not want to be ashamed or emarresed by him.

Roll on the terrible 2's

Nice to know you are not alone with your problems
Thanks guys

ditsymum, how old is he?

Mum2Ela and handlemecarefully, ok, don't think dd has had a real 'tantrum' yet then. She gets stroppy about having nappy changed, being dressed etc. and throws a bit of a wobbler when I take something off her that she really wants. But it usually passes in seconds and she can be distracted when it's going on. She's started doing that thing of making her body go limp when I try to pick her up out of the bath / off the floor when I need to leave somewhere and letting rip a bit at the same time, but again so far it hasn't lasted or gone into full blown hysteria.

I'm sure I'll see a tantrum soon though. Then I won't be asking!

Ok, so we had a 'scene' last night. Dd was v. tired as she got woken from her afternoon nap by a neighbour drilling so wasn't in the best spirits. I too was tired as she'd got up at 5.45am yesterday morning (an all-time worst for her so far). Does anyone else find their child gets v. manic and hyper when over-tired? Well, dd does. Still, held things together until bathtime. I was on my own as dp working so I have to get in the bathroom and close the doors (it's on a landing between 2 steep carpetless flights of stairs) with me and her in there. She was soaking a sponge under the cold water tap while it was running and then watching it drip onto the floor which was becoming like a small swimming pool. I kept telling her to stop and keep the sponge in the bath as the floor was getting wet and she'd fall over but she was resisting, so I moved her away from the tap to the other end of the bath where she then started doing the same by dipping the sponge into the bath water itself. I said no very firmly and then warned her I would take the sponge away. She laughed. But a bit manically. So I took the sponge away and she went absolutely crazy. Kicked her legs, shrieked, wailed, looked as though the world was about to end. So I just held her on my knee until the worst was over and then did the bath and she seemed subdued but fine. I made some silly noises and mimicked her (her favourite thing) and all seemed well. Do you think I handled it ok?

And, tell me truthfully, am I just a bit pathetic asking for all this advice? Dp thinks I am.

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The most important thing with discipline is praise the good behaviour and ignore the bad behaviour.

I would explain things to an 18 month old baby, they know a hell of a lot more than we give them credit for. My daughter is 21 months and I'm always talking and chatting to her about what's right and wrong. How else will they learn if you don't explain things to them. Also I wouldn't leave disipline until they are 2, because it might be a bit late to suddenly be firm with them. Never underestimate the understanding of a toddler. Just do it a bit more gently at a younger age.

Ignore tantrums, they only do it when they have an audience!! Take the audience away and there's no one to perform for.

Give them consequenses to their actions, ie: give them 2 choices, do you want to walk along like a big girl/boy or would you like mummy to carry you there. If protesting and wont walk. Then they learn there is a consequence to their actions.

Never underestimate the power of not talking, use actions rather than words.

inclusion/exclusion, they hate to be left out of things or things taken away, use that to your advantage and explain at the same time. "If you are going to fight over that toy, I will take it away until you decide to play nicely" give them the choice to decide!

right, I think that's enough waffling, I've just completed a positive parenting course, very useful, would recommend to anyone.

DD tried the old throwing herself on the floor, kicking and screaming so I just used to walk out of the room and shut the door - she soon realised that I was taking sod all notice of her and she was using far more enrgy than she needed to and getting herself into a right state - mind you saying that my best friend tried to walk out and shut the door on her son and it just made things worse - he eneded up throwing up!!

Thanks, all.

I know people say praise good and ignore bad but there's bad you can ignore and bad you have to put a stop to, it's the latter that's the hardest to get one's head around.e