What to do when someone's kid is mean to your toddler?

[cheeseypeas]

Second plea for advice tonight!!!

In the kids corner in the library today, this older child (3ish) really upset my 13 month old. He was shouting 'No' at him (right in his face) and grabbing and shoving his hands out the way when he went to play with the pile of toys this boy had. It kept happening as it was a very small area and there wasn't really anywhere else to go. My DS evertually started crying and seemed realy confused and upset. He mixes with allot of other kids but not as old as that. He even tried to offer this boy a toy which he took and then shouted at him again. His mum bearly said anything and didn't intervene. What's the best thing to do in that situation? I know its the kind of thing that happens allot but it was the first time I've seen another child be intentionally mean to my baby and the look on my DS's face really made me feel bad!

I have found that often in this situation, the children casusing the problems are at a loss to know how to behave nicely, presumably because their parents do not guide them. I am making assumptions here obviously but it is not too much of a leap when the parents are sitting there oblivious. I have had some good responses from politely telling them what to do / not to do. The child will often latch onto you in this situation as Secur describes. I think these children are sometimes longing for a bit of attention and genuinely don't know how to play nicely :(

I totally agree, I have seen this before with "bad" kids and it does seem so sad, in this case the lad actually wanted positive attention (ie once the attention started he went out of his way to behave positvly in order to get more) and from his Mums reaction I kind of got the impression that as he was "sick" it was not worth bothering with treating him as a child in the normal sense (although perhaps that is unfair - maybe she would have treated all children that way)

I wouldn't shout or galre. A 3 year old is still in the process of learning about sharing and friendshps. Some 3 year olds are still not p;laying "with" other children, and are really only babies themselves. I doubt he was actually being mean as such - just not wanting to share and probably not really having an idea that his actions were upseting or hurting your baby.

However a 3 year old is old enough to be told - that is how they learn. If the other parent wasn't doing so I would very calmed and quietly just ask the 3yo not to shout or say no, and to let baby share or to give baby a couple of the toys to play with too. I would then praise the 3yo if and when he did share - "oh, thank you, that is lovely, what nice sharing..." type of thing.

If another parent actually shouted at my child for this kind of "normal" behaviour I would be really annoyed with that parent. An adult should no better IMO.

don't forget that a 3 year old is a toddler too though so this could be normal behaviour protecting his own toys

... and how do you know he was 3 .. my DD could be mistaken for 3 but she's only just turned 2

This happened to me at the weekend dd2 (2) said to me that she wanted a go on the swing and just as I lifted her up an older boy snatched it out of the way. Then when she was finally on it he was trying to kick at her so I told him off (not in a horrible way).

Hulababy, I entirely agree. In my opinion this was quite a "normal" reaction but one that needs to be gently discouraged. I have been in situations with a friend who is so protective of her child that she has yelled at mine before I have had a chance to draw breath and step into a tricky situation between our children. Her eldest is 2 years younger than mine and my child is therefore ALWAYS at fault by dint of being older. Needless to say, when the same behaviour is repeated 2 years later by her child it is a different story. I have asked her to moderate the way in which she speaks to my children and when they have asked why she is so unfair I have tried to explain to them that she just can't seem to help herself when it comes to her children. In all other repects she is a lovely person.

Just to give the other way around - ds who is 3 is totally terrified of my friend's 15 month old because he shouts in his face and tries to grab hold of him all the time. Obviously there is no point trying to stop a 15 month old being enthusiastic so I spent most of the time with a tearful and subdued ds on my lap, if that had not been enough we would have left.

You could have removed your child and gone and done something else, which would have shown the 3 year old his behaviour was not acceptable and saved your ds from some shouting.

I now know everyone is going to say "you shouldn't have to move your child". But how many times have you moved away from an annoying person - it's the thing to do.

This has happened to my DS 18 motnhs with an older boy at playgroup, who seems to have singled him out.
He kept shouting at him and pointing in his face, snatching toys etc..I think it upset me more than my DS. but I was concerned that if I did nothing DS would think that that sort of behaviour was acceptable and his mother did nothing to discourage him from doing it, so int he end I said to him ' That's not very nice - he's only little'. I felt I HAD to say something, to stick up for my DS and also to tell this boy that his behaviour was not acceptable.
To be honest now I just try and keep DS out of his way, but I do find it difficult saying something to someone else's child, as we all think we have little angels I'm sure!

Thanks everyone for your advice. Feel allot more 'armed' for next time.

Hi Twiglett, I think he was a minimum of three more like 3.5, maybe even 4. TBH I find it hard to judge ages but I know a couple of 4 year olds and he look just slightly younger. But you're right I can't know for sure. Compared too my 13m who can't talk and has only just learned to toddle about a bit, he just looked so much bigger and more developed which is why it kind of upset me so much.

It's horrible to be both the mother on the receiving end or the giving end of another child's bad behaviour. But it happens all the time and between all ages I've found.

My dd is nearly 4 and gets terribly upset if another child (even a baby) 'interferes' in one of her games when she's concentrating, she finds it intensely frustrating. But I've never seen her shout or push another child (I'd tell her off if she did, certainly wouldn't ignore it). I think age 3-4 is a very possessive age as you'll no doubt find, cheeseypeas, when your ds is at that age. Boys, IME, in particular get possessive about their things. Your ds's totally innocent behaviour towards the boy might have felt, to him in that moment of passionate insane older toddler mentality, as an attack on his game and his monopoly of those toys. So to him, his anger was an 'appropriate' response! IYSWIM?

When dd was smaller and an older child was behaving this way I'd either try to intervene by striking a compromise in which dd got to look at something without ruffling the feathers of the older child's game. Or I'd just move dd somewhere else as she was so much more flexible about her desires at that age and it saved a battle. However I have to say that if an older child physically hurt dd I would say something very firm to them and definitely tell their parent if they didn't stop.

I will say I remember being so when ds was 13 months and another kid who must have been 2.5 (huuuuuge, he was) or so at p/t kept snatching his little pop up hippo thing he was playing with and waving it about and hitting all the buttons.

Now ds is 2.5 and its incredibly obvious to me that he was just trying to play with ds. But then he was a huge, threatening monstrosity trying to bully my baby.

Oooh, I was so , especially as him mum sat there smiling at him.

ds turned 1 a fortnight ago, and only started crawling at 11 mo, so not terribly steady yet. took him to tumble tots to try it out last week - class supposed to be from crawling to 2yo. but a couple of the other babies had older siblings there (who had attended the previous class - for 2-3yo) - one of them shoved ds in the face and i was so . apparently the older ones "weren't actually in the class". well, it bloody looked like they were to me! won't be back...

I probably would have nicely intervened and told the older kid to play nicely as he's a 'big boy' and that ds will get bored with it very quickly and then it's his turn again.

I can't abide parents that dont' even seem to try and do anything when their kids are involved in any 'altrication'.

dd is 4.5 and if she gets 'out of line' then I most definitely intervene. Same with ds though. He's 20m and if he just runs up somewhere and grabs something of even an older kid I tell him that's not the right thing to do. So that the older kid hears :) It's amazing how often the older kid then agrees to let the baby have the toy

this has happened to my ds but what makes it worse is that it's a friends dd who is 3 whereas ds is 1. Tbh it's put me off seeing them. My ds had toys snatched off him and this kid kept shouting in his face, he looked totally bewildered and just bumbled about with other toys. In the end I told her to behave and took some stuff off her. While her mum sat and let it all happen - grrrrrr
Felt really tempted to give her and her mum a slap !!!

Part of me think's that these first born children are just getting a taste of what everyday life would be like with an older sibling.

Then again I was a bit cross when ds told me he had been told to say "no thank you!" to kid that hits him at preschool. No thank you is something you say if you get offered a second cake at a church fete. I told him to say "xxxxx stop hitting" and walk away. Which has the virtue of brevity, being specific (or specificity as the NZ PM would say) and being loud enough for a teacher to hear without being a tell tale.

No thank you FFS!