Aggressive Mummy trying to discipline my 20 mo DS inappropriately

[catcatdelight]

In music class, my 20 mo DS, who is by far the most passionate in the class, lightly pushed another 20 mo boy on his belly today. The boy did not fall down or anything. The pregnant mother came over, grabbed my son's arm, and said NO, you can't do that, in an extremely aggressive, mean, angry way. I said, Don't Discipline my child very calmly, and she said irately that I need to discipline him better, etc. I said, he's too young, and she said he's a bully (He is 100% NOT), and that he's not a baby anymore. She started packing her bags to leave early in anger, and continued with her verbal sparring, so finally I just told her to Go to Hell (I know, bad, but hey, she started it).

Then, they were outside class putting shoes on, and my son started waving bye bye thru the glass, and wanted the boy to come back to class. The mother continued to give my son dirty looks, and yell at him thru the glass, discipling him THRU THE GLASS, which to me, revealed her as a psycho.

Everyone else in the class, including the teacher said not to worry, she's pregnant, and that this incident was nothing compared to 3 year old's, etc. But of course, I am upset.

A) this happenened in the US, where we've just moved B) she had been uptight earlier that month with my DS about musical instrument sharing, c) her son is shy and docile, and D) my DS is happy and passionate about music class, and cute and well-dressed, so it could be (envy) jealousy. However, I wish I'd had the perfect thing to put her in her place, while still acting like a lady. A month earlier she got bent out of shape b/c my son grabbed a drum near her son...you know the type.

The books say that disciplining a 20 mo is sort of pointless to a degree, and I really do not want to kill his spirit, or hurt his self esteem. But, I do not want him to push, obviously, and may have to address that down the road.

My question is, do some of you mommies of older, spirited boys have experience with this sort of thing. In my opinion, she crossed the line and therefore lost her power when she disciplined him, instead of talking to me personally. Any help is appreciated....

Personally I think you over-reacted and then she over-reacted big time (but she does have the excuse of hormones).

You do seem to have a bit of a downer on her DS and I think it is a bit much to suggest she is jealous of you. My DD is 22 months and she gets disciplined for pushing - usually removal from the situation but if minor or that is not appropriate just "no pushing" in a firm voice.

sorry to say this but i was a bitch when i was pregnant and was very capable of standing up to peole anytime anywhere, even in hospital that day i gave birth i was a cow.

so give the woman a break its hard being preggers and having other kids to look after.

Although fundamentally she should not have done it I doubt its jealousy just good old fashioned hormones

Hmm, I have to say that I took my then 18m old dd to a music class, and she kept getting pushed (gently) by a same age boy. The boy's mother always said 'oh dear, he is high spirited isn't he' giggle giggle. Then there were a few instruments which ended up near dd'd head, and to be honest I just got sick of the fact that constantly had to watch this happen. We left the group without making an issue of it. I do think that soon her ds is going to have a shock when someone does start to discipline him. You can't just say 'oh, he's 2 today, time to start the discipline'. It is a gradual understanding built up over time.

Though I do think her reaction a bit OTT, but hormones & all that.

Hmm, well i think you should have moved a bit faster to tell your DS not to push. How come she got there quicker ?

Also, 20mths is way old enough to understand that pushing, isn't acceptable.

I think you should have apologised to her, how would you feel if it was your DS being pushed ?

Only skimmed- but agree with custy. I might have said "be gentle" or "no" or something but nothing stronger. And tbh if she'd called my 20 month old a bully (FFS- get a grip!) then I wouldn't have bothered and would have left her to have a strop and stew.

Where are you in the US? Hoipe you find some laid back friends!

Found this thread when looking for something else. Am interested because dd got pushed (deliberately and forcefully) at playgroup the other day by an older child, whose father was too busy sitting reading the paper to notice. Another mother came up to me and said the child was pushing her baby and other children the other week and the father never does anything abou it.

In this situation catcatdelight, I think both you and the other mother were in the wrong. What niggled me most was you suggesting it could be jealousy, especially since there's the ready-made excuse of hormones. Your son being passsionate may be a "fact" but wtf has it got to do with anything? Unless of course your trying to explain his pushing as 'passionate' behaviour. It seems a bit mean-spirited to compare children to me and to come to the conclusion that she could be jealous because your child is passionate and hers is "shy and docile". Maybe she prefers her child being not "passionate" enough to push others. Have some empathy for her. She shouldn't have grabbed your child, but your child did push hers and you didn't apologise. Surely it's just common courtesy to apologise? Most mothers understand and you just end up sharing a wry smile. I do think you could have diffused the situation by apologising and calmly saying you would tell your child not to push but obviously it is common behaviour at that age and she is not to to grab your child again.

totally agree with mojomummy

esp "Hmm, well i think you should have moved a bit faster to tell your DS not to push. How come she got there quicker ? "

taitai - I totally agree. It is up to the adults to diffuse the situation and a smile and apology by the parent of the "aggressor" usually does wonders

I have had to remove my DS from situations again and again when the parent has just sat and watched while my son is being pushed and hit. I do not blame the child and certainly would never dream of punishing someone's child, but I do very much blame the parent for being passive.

My DD, now 2, is very spirited. Her spiritedness leads her to give a friendly pat on the back to every child in playgroup as they come in the door. However, it sometimes directs her to push the occasional child as well. In a similar situation my child pushed another in playgroup and the pushed child’s grandmother took hold of my child’s arm. For clarity I will explain I was seated next to my DD at the very time the pushing occurred. However, this woman had hold of my DD before I had opportunity to respond. She did not harm my DD but her scowl look spoke novels. In a very insensitive way she told my DD not to push. I was floored and suddenly beside myself with anger. Quickly I took a deep breath and gently pulled my DD into my lap. The lady had actually scared her. I took both her hands in mine and softly said, “Remember, we do not push.” I then turned to the pushed child and said, “Dear, she meant no harm. She’ll play nicer next time.” And finally, I looked coldly at the grandmother and said I was sorry. Playgroup continued but the instance upset me so that after a few minutes I picked up my DD and quietly left.

This left me with the question: Why do we have playgroups if it’s not to help children learn how to politely socialize?

I have no patience for members of playgroups who are not willing to help nurture my child’s spirit. This leads me back to catcatdelight’s original post: Pregnant or not, she did not have just cause to touch your child. She may have said politely, “Please, don’t push” or “That’s his belly. Where’s yours?” Her actions were clearly not appropriate. It’s our jobs to give good examples to our children even if it’s correcting naughty behavior.

my dd has always had a bit of a temper and has pushed hit kicked and bitten people usually me and i have been disciplining her since she was about 1 we have a naughty corner and if she does something unacceptable she has to go to it, if she still carries on then its toy confiscation and as last resort i put her in her room. she is 28 months now and is beginning to know right from wrong and what will happen if she whacks the cat or me or her friends! i dont think 20 months is too young for some form of discipline it doesnt stifle there spiritedness and as someone else pointed out you cant just introduce discipline the day they turn 2 or 3 or whenever. i would be unhappy if someone else took it on themselves to tell her off though my mum did it once whilst i was already dealing with it and i was so angry!

OMG I hate to admit I was that other mother once, about seven years ago. I was in a music class when a kid of about 2 hit my 9 month old hard on the head with a beater. Before I could even think, before my censor came up, I was pointing a finger 2cm from the kids nose hissing, 'NO' with menace.

I blame hormones. It was over the top. The mum said to me, 'That is NOT OK, actually', and I defensively burbled something about, 'Well someone had to tell him and I didn't see you leaping in'.
She was still upset at the end because I remember hearing her complain to the teacher and I toughed it out and pretended to be Mrs. Sane chatting away all smiles with another mum.

I still feel slight guilt and embarrassment at the thought seven years on. Luckily it was in London so it's not like I had to meet her again.

I can only imagine this woman's hormones were all over the place (especially as she was pg) and she had less control than is customary here in good old Blighty.

My Dd is 22 months and tried to push a boy in the park out of her way today, he was much older than her so he didnt budge!
We told her, no we dont push people, but at this age they dont understand what will happen if you push someone, iyswim, obviously you say no, or deal with it however you think best, they do need to learn.
BUT, i dont think that being pregnant is any excuse for treating people any way you like, you still have to control yourself, hormones or not.

Mumsnet, can we give posters the benefit of the doubt? It's surprising how some made negative assumptions..... a) it wasn't a push, merely a belly tap, and done with a happy smile, not mischievious or mean b)) we were in music, class, with music going on, teacher led, and not really best time to loudly or dramatically interupt class to make a display, which is how she beat me to it c) Jealousy was suggested not b/c my boy is passionate and hers isn't, but b/c she made it obvious she didn't like us (me) earlier--not worth explaining, just trust me. c) this wasn't play date, she was basically a stranger...I'd seen her 3x.

I posted b/c I thought others with spirited but sweet boys might have some clever ideas on how to handle overreactive Mommies of quieter children. I do feel I did mostly the right thing, since she jumped my boy so meanly, and was so obviously having a go at me as well. (BTW, I have said no to him when he does that light push and he still does it occasionally) Hormones are no excuse, we've all been pg. In retrospect, I should have scolded her more, b/c her behaviour was so out of control and inappropriate. It takes a village, not boot camp, a point on which many of you agree.

ccd - don;t dwell on it. The problem is that there are always two sides to a story and some people here are aware of that and aware that we are only hearing the story as related by yourself. That's not to say that your account is biased, but just that it might be. Also some people (me included) have had experiences that might be similarish, but from the other side. I struggled with a very boisterous boy in music class, no-one minded him, but I think we all got fed up with the fact his mum never did anything to even try to teach / enforce some basic rules, and one week he pushed (as he did every week) and the mum of the kid that got pushed saw red, and said a very stern no. In his case I think the mum was well within her rights. All of which is not meant to be directly relevant but just another experience to indicate why some may have seemed to make negative assumptions. I really wouldn't worry about it. It was the last class. she was pg - you said she was out of control as something that makes her actions worse. I'd actually say that being out of control mitigates - she just lost the plot. forget it.

She definitely overstepped the mark, but I think I would have done something to 'discipline' my DS if he had pushed another child over. A child pushed my son over the other day whilst her dad just stood there and watched and I have to say I was irrationally furious, and really wanted to scream and shout at the father for standing by and not saying or doing anything. I know kids do this sort of thing but I really did think he shuold have atleast removed her from the situation and said no

If some other child pushed mine I would say "no, don't push, he doesn't like that" or something similar, regardless of whether the other parent was around or not. I've never had any trouble saying it. It needs saying, regardless of what parenting method you use. I don't know about touching another child but if it were the only means of restarining him/her then yes, I'd keep them away physically. I'd do the same to my own BTW.

Dificult one.
Don't agree that that 20 months is too young to start disciplining, but as you were there and clearly visible to the other mother I would have left you to say something to your son. I would only tell another child off if the mother wasn't around, and even then would just say "pushing is wrong because it hurts".
I agree she went over the top and spoilt her own kid's fun at class.
Blame her hormones.

When I was pg with DS2 I was mega over protective of DS1. I'd over react at the slightest thing, burst into tears at the most embarassing moments, hormones all over the place. So I'd say just cut her a bit of slack.

However, I am a huge believer that unless I'm not there no-one should discipline my kids, that's my job. If either of my DS's get overly excited they can get a bit pushy (they are 4.3yrs and 19m), and if they get pushy with other kids they are told no, DS1 has to apologise, if he doesn't he gets taken away, and due to DS2's age he gets taken away for a few mins then is allowed to return. So far it's working. So if it'd been my child that'd pushed another I'd have told them off.

Also I agree with another poster, what's clothes got to do with it? Surely if a child is 'cuter' than another, and I'm sure most mums think their kid is the cutest ever, it doesn't mean it's ok for them to be pushy and get away with it does it?