Anyone else with a child that tantrums aged 5+

[Pennies]

My DD2 was 5 in December. She's a very effusive child and lots of fun when she's on form. The thing is she also is effusive in her negative moods and her anger is full on and immediate. As an example I told her I was making her scrambled eggs on toast this morning and she was initially happy. She then wanted a banana to eat whilst I was making it and I said no. She went into total screaming tears immediately and tried to convince me that I had said yes to her eating a banana before I said no (which I absolutely didn't). This is the second time today she had tried to convince me that I'd OK' something when I hadn't. She lies like this all the time and about other stuff too.

Her immediate and loud tears drive me nuts. I've put up with it for 5 years now I've lost the ability to tolerate it. There was an incident in the car yesterday which caused her to scream loudly and distract me so I ended up totally screaming back at her. This morning I lost the plot too and shouted incredibly loud and slammed my hand onto the table. This is not how I want or like to parent and it makes me feel that I'm not a fit parent if I can't keep my temper. I ended up in tears too this morning.

There isn't a single day when she doesn't have a tantrum about something (usually something very minor as well) or do something that gets her into trouble (e.g. antagonising her big sister or tormenting the cat). I've taken down all the pictures in her room as a punishment. She's been sent to her room to cool off innumerable times, she's had toys confiscated, I've tried stickers and playdates as rewards for good behaviour - about every trick in the book. It's just in her nature to be like this and I am at an utter loss in how to cope and as a result I'm struggling to keep my temper and more often that not I'm losing it and end up really shouting at her. So I'm here asking for any help / similar experiences (particularly of parents of children who were like this but are now older - what are they like now?).

Just to close - when she is in a good mood (and she can revert to a good mood in minutes / seconds after a tantrum, as if nothing ever happened) she is like having a ray of sunshine in the house. She's got genius comic timing and delivery and often has us all in stitches , she sings all the time, she also knows how to behave because she confirmed that she would never throw a tantrum like she does at someone else's houses. She has rather volatile and fickle relationships with other children in her class, but they do at that age don't they (except my DD1 who didn't...).

All help, advice or shared experiences very welcome. I need to learn how to parent her better because she's always had this in her. I jest that she's still pissed off about being born. I don't see her changing much so I think the shift in focus needs to come from me. But how?

also I would have a chat to the school your DD attends - are these tantrums happening there - DS tantrums started to really escalate when he started school and we put it down to the stress of the new enviroment, turns out he was having HUGE meltdowns at school and they were removing him from the class and he was getting lovely one on one time with the TA - who wouldnt throw a tantrum when you can get that instead of fighting for attention with 30 other kids!!

I've 6 YO twin DDs who are also prone to sudden frequent tantrums. For the more severe ones I will use 'holding' which is exhausting for me but does allow me to help her calm down (eventually).
I don't use time out / naughty steps as that method is not right for my DDs however I have locked myself in the loo to give me a couple of mins to calm down myself.
I agree that unfortunately remaining calm, firm and consistent yourself is the only way, although I don't claim that I'm always able to act that way - I also get tired & hungry!!

Again like others have said I need to give my DDs a chance to let off steam in other ways - like a dog - they need to be exercised regularly.

Good luck - I don't think there is a magic answer we just need to be grateful for our spirited, fun, lively children and the fact that they don't behave like this when they're with others - oh and ensure full wine stocks

I thought I was the only one going throught his! Like OP, I sometimes get pushed to the point where I react and lose my temper. It does make things worse and seems to legitimise DS behaviour (4.10).

He had what I call a meltdown at school the other day - got upset, angry, crying, tantrum etc. Head was called as DS was taking too long to calm down. We had had a chat the night before about his behaviour as he'd had another tantrum and I set out soem rewards that he could work towards etc (by the book stuff!!).

I have now started to disengage. When he doesn't listen (like this morning when getting ready) instead of telling him over and over, I got up and quietly walked out of the room. He followed me demanding to know where I was going, what was wrong and I told him very calmly that if he wasn't going to listen to Mummy then there was no point in me being in the room or talking to him and took myself off downstairs.

I have worked out that I fuel the fire with DS tantrums by trying to reason with him or trying to change his behaviour (and sometimes losing my temper) so am going to try cutting of the fuel supply (i.e. my attention). DS doesn't like it when he isn't getting my attention but he is going to have to earn it! Got to be worth trying. If it carries on working I'll let you know! I don't want to parent by shouting matches!

Like other posters, DS is very smart and able to construct arguments like a teenager, has an answer for everything (usually preety good & thought through!). I wonder soemtimes if a lot of it is frustration?

Pennies - OK so picture bananagate again...

DD. I want a banana.

You. No. Dinner's almost ready, you can have a banana as a pud.

DD. I WANT A BANANANAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

You. (calmly thinking of spring and flowers) Same answer as before just with the added - don't make a fuss (or whatever wording) or you'll get counted.

DD. BANBABABABABABABABNNNNAAA NOW. WAAAAAHh

You. That's 1.

DD. WAAAAHAHAHAHA.. BANANANANANAN.

You. That's 2. (still calm picturing a waterfall in summer!) Remember you get to 3 and you're on the naughty step.

DD scenario 1. OK, darling mother. I shall indeed wait for my tea. (well...more likely...sniff, begrudgingly simmering down the tantrum)

DD2 scenario 2. BANANANANAAAAA (face turning puce)

You. OK...that's 3. Go to the naughty step...I'll set the timer.

After 5mins (I tend to add extra time if they don't go, don't stay or make a big drama once on the step...but will also give a cuddle on the step if he's just can't calm down without it...but he still serves his time)....so after 5min....'Off you come and have your tea'.

The reason about not explaining is that

• you'll have already explained the 'rules' of 123 (she'll pick it up pretty quick) so she knows why she's being counted

• she knows why she ended up on the naughty step and doesn't need rhyme and verse aftermath analysis (as it prolongs it and gives opportunity for more antagonism from both sides)

• very simple rules, very simple to apply. You feel in control and so you don't get (as) annoyed as you have a plan.

• No reasoning, no opportunity for backchat, no winding each other up. So less emotional.

• Important that all is forgiven and forgotten after the step as simmering annoyance from you or her is just going to lead to escalation. She 'serves her time' and a fresh slate is started (and not in a just waiting/expecting something else to happen).

It differs from just going 1,2,3 in quick succession as that is giving them almost a line in the sand that is egging them on to step over - almost antagonistic. Whereas 1, then a break, 2 then a break gives them a chance to think about their next step.

I also refer back to past episodes (not in a mean way, but I know my DS finds it awful having a big tantrum himself - but sometimes it feels bigger than him) - so sometimes just saying 'now remember...you had a massive tantrum about going to the shops last week and all that happened was you got cross, I got cross and you ended up on the naughty step AND we still went shopping!'

I think it really is horses for courses though. This worked amazingly for my DS, and I rarely have to count him and rarely get to more than 1 or 2. you just have to find the right combo that works for you and your DD.

The Dad poster makes a point that I do to - being more playful and jokey to stop the tantrum/bad mood before its ever started.

Trouble is once you think you've got it sussed (which I have to say I don't mostly! how do you get them to listen/co-operate/calming down!) they go and change the goal posts on you. A colleague assured me the teenage years were the worst and I just ran away with my hands over my ears going 'lalalalala'...

How do you make them go to and stay on the naughty step? I can only get him to stay somewhere by holding the door shut while he swings on the handle on the other side of it!

my 6 year old is like this, but he is now beif assessed for suspected Asperger's, which explains a lot!

anyway, his temper tantrums can come on out of nowhere, and he works through them and then they disappear and he's nice as pie again and behaving as though nothig happened. it's very frustrating

I am coping with it better lately though (when i have the patience) by:

listening to him. even when he is screaming, if i interrupt it makes it a million times worse. So, I do tell him to use a normal voice, but I let him tell me everything that he feels is the matter with the situation

i then attempt to explain my point of view, very concisely.

if he has calmed down by then we have to try ad work on a compromise. so, in your banana situation it might be:

dd, you want a banana because you're hungry.
I don't want you to have one because i'm worried you won't eat your lunch.
how can we work this out?

you can both have various goes at solutions but the one rule is that any solution has to work for BOTH parties.
so you might say she can have one for pudding
she may suggest she eats it now but promises to eat her dinner
you may compromise on eating half now and savig half for after

It's working quite well for us at the moment and I like that it is't a punishment/reward system of getting him to behave. He is learning to think about others and how to compromise. it does take a lot of patience though
there are plenty of days when i just yell at him to get to his room, but they're less frequent than they used to be

I will normally try and take an opportunity at another time while we're both calm ad happy to talk about inappropriate behaviour and why people don't like being shouted at and why it's not a very good way of getting something ypou'd like!

This is my DS1 to a T as well, but sorry to say, bugsonbuns, he'll be 9 at the end of May

Rewards/sanctions has never ever worked here, again probably because it makes things higher stake, therefore worth getting worked up about. Also, as soon as he has the prize, the behaviour reverts to "normal", or else he has his eyes on the next prize.

He is very very sensitive and is always quick to tears if something isn't going his way, and if he is nervous about something he becomes unbearable; playing up, being silly, jumping around like a loon and refusing to listen to anything we say to him. He is also easily distracted at school, and although very clever in the amount of stuff that he knows, is middle of the road in terms of achievement because of his distractibility and daydreaming. I;ve also done the shouting and screaming and having to physically remove him from a situation incase he hurts either himself or others, but when he is calm and happy, he is the most delightful child ever and all adults he meets say what a well mannered and easy going child he is (he has the knack of being able to talk to anyone and everyone, regardless of age or gender)

I have actually begun to wonder whether he has ADHD or some other, as yet undiagnosed, behavioural issue

sorry, I know I'm not helping as we are kind of at the end of our tether, but I like the idea of the 1-2-3 magic. what we have recently started doing is trying not to engage in an argument with him, and he gets sent to have some "time-out" on his bed with a book rather than the naughty step, as he has two younger siblings and feels babied on the step, and to make sure that they don't bug him when he's there. It's too early to tell whether it's having an effect though.

I feel your pain though

Bugsonbuns - thank you so much for that post. I see the premise of it and will put it into practice tomorrow with whatever drama unfolds. I was quick to stop tears tonight by immediately doing something v similar to that.

It's amazing to read of other people's spirited children out there!

We use the 1-2-3 and have done for some years - once we get to 3 its the bedroom and some calm down time. Seems to work pretty well in shortening the issues - prob is on a really bad tantrum he sometimes shouts 1-2-3 back at me and sends himself off too bed!!!

I am only really commenting about the snack before the meal issue, but my DDs 3 and 4 years, get like this before meals, tea in particular. We always have fruit after tea, so if they ask for fruit while I am getting tea ready, I would always allow them to have it. I see no difference whether they eat it before or after. I would never tell my children that they couldn't have any fruit if they asked for it (well except if they only ate fruit!) and if they said they were hungry not long before a meal, I would actively tell them that they can have fruit, (or cucumber or something if it was part of lunch anyway) but nothing else.

DD1 was like this till she 12. She's now a lovely 14 year old who definitely doesn't behave like this any more. Sometimes I was patient, sometimes I lost it! She still turned into a lovely teenager.

I tried everything to change her behaviour and NOTHING worked. So maybe you will find strategies on here but don't worry if you don't because different methods work for different children and sometimes nothing works. I'm sure most of you have tried the suggestions on here already!

Generally this is NOT your fault, it is not your bad parenting, it is simply the personalities that your children have.

Had a go at the 1-2-3 at the weekend and I have to say it did seem to work. The Super Nanny naughty step technique with explaining why they were there etc only seemed to serve to enagage them more in the argument and prolong it. Only had a couple of opportunities to use it but it did seem to take the wind out of the argument because I wasn't getting drawn in to long explanations and getting frusutrated at them not listening!

Will have to get hold of the book to see if I am doing it right/if there are any other pearls of wisdom in there!

I have a 4 1/2 year old D who is becoming worse with age in terms of behaviour. I don't think we have done a bad job at all but she has suddenly started spitting, kicking us, and saying really hurtful things. Nobody would believe us if we told them as she is so well behave out of the house - although her Grandparents experience her current behaviour. I was just wondering though, all the people who say they send their children to their room etc, how do you get them to go and stay there when they refuse to move? As she is my only child I have no experience with how to deal with this.

I used to hold the door closed from the other side and tell DD1 that I'd put the child lock on.