At about what stage should DS be able to hold his pencil and sort of be able to have a go at writing his name?

[laa]

DS is nearly 4.5 yo. and has been at the pre-school attached to his primary school for a year - this is his 4th term there. I've started to notice that all of his peers can hold a pencil properly and write their name - or a reasonable stab at it. My DS though is really struggling with this. He seems unsure which hand to hold his pencil in, struggles with holding it properly and has little control over it. When it comes to forming letters or shapes he seems unable to do it. Now he isn't inspired by art or colouring or anything like that. He spends most ofthe day running around the house ewith pirates and animals making up fantastic adventures and stories. Also, the more we try to encourage him to do something, the more he will refuse to do it. However, I'm beginning to wonder why most other children are able to do this but he isn't. I asked school but they are quite dismissive and say he's not ready and it'll come. They also say that letter formation is hard to learn - but all of his peers can and when he does an 'a' the stalk is in one half of the page and the rounded bit is more of a long squiggle on the other half. I'm sure it will come and part of me really isn't bothered. At the same time DS has commented on how all his friends can write their name and he can't. Neither my dad or I have a dominant hand, so I wonder if that's part of the problem. When do most children master this? I don't want to sound pushy because with our DS with things like this we tend to leave well alone until he shows an interest. This approach doesn't always work though and I don't want to keep leaving it and suddenly find he's in year one without being able to write his name - and streamed accordingly. He's in a state primary with large class nos. so the top part of one year and lower part of the yr. below are mixed - so making 3 classes out of 2 yrs. I've got a triangular grip to help pencil holding. I've tried tracing letters and writing with fingers in paint etc. to make it fun - and on the beach. Any ideas or should I just leave it be??

its all about fine motor skills which take a while to develop

how does he feel about lego or toys like transformers .. they're both pretty good for kids who don't like actual creative stuff to develop the hand - eye coordination and fine motor skills

Laa you sound very sensible and laid-back. FWIW I don?t think it?s a great problem if children can?t write their names before they start school - gettign dressed after PE etc is a much more useful skill as far as I can gather.
Havign said that, yes, many children can write their name before they start. But I wouldn?t worry too much and certainly not force it. DD was 4 in June and started school last month, could just about write her name but not well; in fact the formation of her letters has come on loads in the last month. You might find when ds starts (in Jan I assume?) he will make big strides esp when he sees the others doing it.
A triangular grip thing is a good idea, also ways to make letters fun eg dotting the letters for him, drawing them in sand, painting them with water on the patio etc.
Sounds like he is more interested in active stuff tho, and that?s fine because that?s really important too.

that's a good idea from twiglett, also things like Magnetix (my ds1 loves that) and fiddly bits of Playmobil.

Thanks for the ideas. We are trying lego and playmobil. He does see lots of his peers doing it though andis it normal for him to struggle so much with letters?

for writing in its early stages the triangular pencils are supposed to be v good at helping them to get a proper hold (dd's reception teacher recommended we got one for her - just from local stationers - and it seemed to help)

my daughter was 4 in july and she can just write her name but she doesnt really hold the pencil right

Laa - DS1 has just started in reception this term. When he left nursery at the end of last term, he couldn't write his name "at all" (well could write a "T" - but that was a struggle). Within 4 weeks of him being at school he's now writing his name - and he'd already turned 5 before he could do that

saying that my daughter is TIA so not really hard ??

lol muma3, I recall a pal of ds1?s writing her name so easily at nursery school - but then it was Eve! Another friend hasAlexandra and she used to really tail off towarsd the end poor thing.
(note to self, call any future babies (!) Joe, Pat, Mia, Sam etc etc)
Laa, I would say the range of ?normal? in this sense is huge. ds1?s fine motor before starting school was not great but he could manage his name more of less.
I would wait until he is at school and then chat to his teacher. As QoQ says, you may see massive improvements.

laa... my daughter didn't choose to be left handed till she was nearly 5... We have recently seen a OT because she has trouble writting, it seems that because she didn't start using that hand till late the muscles didn't get strong. She is 9 now and still doesn't have a dominant hand. or a tripod grip.
Her OT gave her some therrey putty (sp) its like playdough, and she does excercises with it to strengthen her hands.. ie squeezes it a particular way, pushes marbles through it...

If I had known this earlier that these problems would occur... I would have encouraged her to play with playdough more,
leggo
playmobile
anything small...

actually having said all that... we did these things.. she just didn't like doing them...

The triangular grip pencil is a good idea....

sorry I'm no much help....

ds2 can write his name he was 4 last month.

Get a playstation - -great for developing hand and eye co-ordination

rummum, that sounds similar to DS. School only today suggested singing songs with finger actions to strengthen his fingers. He does do lego and playmobil, but thinking about it he doesn't really play with it all that much. Perhaps he finds it hard to manoeuvre? Food for thought. Still feel inexplicably anxious - silly, I know. DD is 2.5 and holds a pen perfectly - like it is an innate sense. She's rh.

Rummum - I just love it when OTs etc say 'encourage' your baby to lie on their tummy/play with X. Sometimes you just CANNOT 'encourage' them to do something they absolutely loathe. Don't beat yourself up about it.
Whenever I put my ds on his tummy he lay there sobbing helplessly, nose in the carpet, not pushing himself up a millimetre. He's dyspraxic and no amount of 'encouraging' would have made a blind bit of difference.

If ds is starting to comment that his friends can do it but he can't would it encourage him if you explained that they probably spent more time practicing and doing colouring and the like? Maybe he hasn't been interested before and is now ready to try a little harder.

I am glad you started this thread, DS started Nursery in September. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on this. I was wondering if DS is behind in anyway, but it seems from this thread he is not. He also doesnt seem to know whether he is left or right handed. I will encourage the play doug, lego stuff more. Thanks

I suppose I'm interested if you think i should be expecting the school to do any more or respond differsntly? Am I being foolish when I agree that, yes, it'll happen when it happens. Should I be doing more? After hearing Rummum's story I don't want to look back and think I should have done more.

My Daughter has a lot of other issues going on as well. She is hypermobile which means her joints give a little bit more than usual, so holding a pencil her fingers bend back a bit more. She is seeing a OT at the moment who suggests she may have dyspraxic tendences... who knows... I look back and things fall into place with her, ie why she never played with her barbies much, she say's "mum, I just couldn't dress them" bless her, I never realised they were just too fiddly....

When you say you don't have a dominant hand Laa, what do you mean??

I forgot to say that the school will probably think that he is still within his age / development stage...

d an

Oh dear. Just got to the end of a long post and it all disappeared?? Start again. Basically Rummum, I was saying that although I write with my left hand, when it comes to virtually everything else I use both hands because neither feels more comfortable. I'm rubbish at tennis because I really still haven't worked out which hand to hold a racket in (and I'm not sure I want to play a sport that idolises Tim Henman - but that's an entirely different thread...). I am quite clumsy too. My dad is the same and if I lost my left hand I suspect that I could learn to write with the right side pretty easily. I'm sure i read an article about this in the Sunday Times. It's not ambidextorous but something else and it's hereditary. I'm sure that DS still doesn't know which hand to use, whereas DD has made a very clear choice already at 2.5.

is it bilateral??
Daughter is Left handed with writting and eating, yet when she tries something new she doesn't know how to approach things.. ie.. we tried archery the other day and she didn't know which hand to hold it in... cricket is another whichhander?
I am right handed yet play the guitar and recorder left handed and shuffle with my knife and fork when eating...

Have a look in Smith's at a Yoropen. My DD's Senco has got her using one and I've had a go, very comfortable to hold and you can see more easily what you are writing. The grip on the barrel can be turned round if you are left handed I think. My DD has dyspraxia and hypermobility and has really struggled with writing - didn't help that she had a 9 letter name poor thing ! I agree with the getting him to do things that encourage fine motor skills with the emphasis on fun as you've been doing. I'm also a great fan of fish oils if you're not using them already.

that sounds so familiar. I don't think it entirely explains away my lack of sporting prowess, but I can't imagine what it feels like to have one hand obviously in control. Poor DS doesn't stand a chance!When do you think that developmentally he should be able to write his name - or at what stage would the school suddenly have concerns??

You have a lot to learn about schools LAA... IMO don't hold you breath [sorry]

I work in a pre-school, I have several Key children who don't write their name yet at the same age...
I think that when they go to school they will do lots of hand eye co-ordination games and fine motor skill practice...
apparently the big movements ie.. draw big circles,big lines, come before the small fiddly writting...
I think lots of praise helps the kids...

Kittypickle.. does she use the yoro pencil??... I wondered what they were like??

My ds is only 3.4 so not expecting him to write at the m, but he seems to be left handed (although nursery thought right handed!) most of the time. He can't seem to hold a pencil properly - maybe he's too young but if you give him a picture to colour he just scribbles all over the page! DD is 2.1 and looks more natural with pencil in her right hand. Seems it might be a left-handed thing? (will ask my dad & brother!)