What to do when "they dare care about the pasta".....

[QueenOfQuotes]

for the pasta jar???

Just had the evening from hell with DS1 - and I'm feeling like the cr*pest, most horrible mum in the world. After his 'incidenct' with the scissors earlier and numerous other deliberate naughty behaviours, and rudeness I decided to try the pasta jar idea. I sat down and explained it to him really nicely, all smiles and lots of encouragment, we even decided what he'd get as a treat for when he filled it.

It was all going really well............for about 5 minutes, and the he started over again, pushing his brother, messing with the landline phone, answering back, ignoring me - the full works. Turned round and told me he didn't "want any pasta in the silly jar" - and he "didn't care" (he' just turned 5 BTW).

I decided it was bath time - as usually it's a good 'distraction'.....but he continued in there, even trying to push DS2 over in the water. I asked him repeatedly not to do the things (not just pushing his brother, other 'stuff') and he ignored me again.

Then, this is the bit I feel so awful about I just snapped. I said so many things to him that I'm so ashamed I can't even bring myself to repeat on here . For the first time in my life I also smacked him without a warning, or reason. I finished the bath of ASAP, and served the dinner up. He was then "taking too long" (in my short tempered mood) to put his pj's on and I threatened to send him to bed with no dinner.

He turned round and said he didn't want any, and that he wanted to go to bed. So I sent him off - nearly 1 1/4hrs early. DS2's dinner was still hot, so I sat down and waited, but after 10 minutes realised I had to go upstairs and say sorry to DS1 and invite him to come back downstairs and have some dinner.

Which he decided to do. Dinner went remarkably well, smiles and giggles from both boys, and they both "earned" their yoghurt for desert. DS1 then tidied up all the toys fantastically well, and I offered to give him a piece of pasta for his jar......still didn't want any.

They both sat on the sofa while I ran the hoover round, but then once I'd finished I asked DS1 to sit quietly on the sofa (as he does everynight) while DS2 had his bottle. again he ignored me, and despite asking 4 times still didn't do it until I started to raise my voice.

Sent them off to bed now (10 minutes ago) but feeling absoutely terrible about the things I said to him . I'm suprised he didn't turn round and tell me he hated me, but I'm sure that's what he was thinking.

I just don't know what to do with him, we've had a couple of days of "do x,y,z and you'll get a toy taken away" - and by dinner time tonight the toy box was practically empty - which of course then isn't fair on DS2.

We've tried calm, shouting, smacking (apart from my disgusting behaviour tonight - this is always done with 3 warnings, and explanation afterwards), naughty step/time out, toys taken away - and I was hoping to try 'pasta jar'.....but he doesn't want to know.

He's never like this for DH, or anyone else. And he even misbehaves for me even if DH is at home and I'm doing the 'talking'.

ds was being really bad yesterday and I told him I was taking him to the childrens home - and he believed me

I felt extremely bad!

yes I know so they say HM, but it's just all the time, and I just can't cope with it ATM. It's been hard enough adapting to DH's new working hours (never here for the evening routine, dinner,bath, bed etc) without this behaviour. I just feel completely hopeless.

People always comment when we're out about how well behaved they both are, I just nod and smile sweetly, knowing that as soon as I get home DS1 is going to be naughty

QoQ- a few times I have been tempted to get the video camera out to prove to people what she can be like for me! Only a few people have witnessed her at her worst and when they do they are shocked and cant believe its the same girl.

Are you with the children significantly more than your DH? I know I am by a big percentage so when Daddy comes home its all a rip roaring, fun, loud, crazy, happy time when even the mundane tasks such as bathtime etc are done with a freshness to the job that I just cant muster when Im moving into the 14th hour that day of being surrounded only by my whining kids! This rubs off on the kids and Im sure in their little immature minds whilst I know they love me to pieces they think Im there to nag them into things and Daddy is there to have lots of fun.

Message withdrawn

Can you get DH to explain the pasta jar to DS1 as well? United front kind of thing?

And I think that going to school and Daddy being away in the evenings is probably a big factor in his playing up. And I know both are necessary, but it's a bugger, isn't it?

"Are you with the children significantly more than your DH?"

Not really (well yes with DS2 but not DS1).

The boys get up at about 8(ish). DS1 goes to school at 1-3. And DH goes off to work from 1.30 until 9. Both DS's go to bed at 8. So effectively it's 5hrs with us both there, and 5 hours with just me. Weekends DH is here all weekend, and on Sunday evenings, when I'm playing at church DH is at home with both of them (plus on Saturday mornings I usually go to town for shopping on my own, so he's got them both then),

Socci - I did sit down with him to discuss what he'd like - he said a big bar of chocolate (which is affordable thankgoodness) but still didn't seem bothered by it.

HM - may try and explain the pasta jar thing to DH tomorrow and see if he can 'excite' him anymore about it.

He woke up about 1/2hr ago 'moaning' - DH sorted him though - I couldn't bear to go and see him

QoQ, would buying the big bar of chocolate and showing it to him, then hiding it help? He'd know it existed then!

I hope you can get DH to understand how important it is to be united on this - ask him to think about how he'd feel if DS1 behaved for you and not him?

lol HM - I'd love to do that.....but I've got £20 to do the last 90% of the shopping.......to last until next Thursday/Friday

DH is going to have a word with him tomorrow, of course it doesn't help that while I'm "stressed out" by the sudden "re"-downturn in our finances, he's "doubly stressed out"

Ah. Now that's problematic.

Print a picture out of a big bar of chocolate and stick it on the fridge?

LOL - that made me

Very glad to hear it!

now it might sound daft but theres a method to my madness. i think these ideas work well when there are competing siblings. so can you include yourself and your dh/dp in the pasta jar affair?

you could even say to your dh/dp " oh well done for washing up - a piece of pasta for you"
or " Ds, what do you think of tea tonight? think i deserve a piece of pasta?"

then if mummy shouts you get one taken away

Good thinking Custardo ( - not sure I can spare enough pasta for all of us atm ).

Had another, slightly more 'rational' chat with DH. He's going to help me explain the pasta jar in the morning.

We're not going to promise to buy him anything, as we really can't afford it atm.
But we're going to come up with things we can do at home which he LOVES to do, but doesn't have the chance to very often.

His first "prize" is going to be a chance to play on the Cbeebies website for 1/2hr (or so). He's loved doing that for a long time, but doesn't often get the chance anymore - because of where the computer is, and age of DS2.

After he's filled it up another time then he's going to get........ermm well, haven't got that far yet LOL.

Can you ask him what he'd like as a reward? Steer him gently towards things that don't cost anything, obviously

And talk about what you and DH will have as rewards for your jars (and see if you can think of something else to fill the jars with if pasta's in short supply!). Definitely a good idea, Custy!

QoQ - have been thinking of this overnight. As you know, I've been having problems with ds1 since he's started school (although not as extreme as you have, by the sounds of things ). It's got a bit better recently (although still up and down) and I've been wracking my brains as to which bits have helped and which haven't.

Random thoughts I've had in no particular order:

• I've been reading some of the other threads. You do seem to have a lot on your plate at the moment - I'm wondering whether he's picking up on your stress and this is making things worse. I think even if you do a really good job of hiding stress from kids, they're at an age now where they pick up on it anyway and react accordingly. Might it be worth having a sit down and chat about what he's feeling atm, whether he's worried about stuff, and letting him know (in simple terms) what's going on?

• the big thing that's helped with my ds1 was to completely lower my expectations for the next month, just to see what would happen. I've worked out which parts of behaviour are absolute "I'm not budging on my expectations" and which bits I'm going to completely ignore. My stress levels have gone down considerably since I've decided to completely ignore any bad behaviour at mealtimes, for example (and his behaviour has actually improved since he's not getting the attention for it either) and the atmosphere is nicer.

• the other thing I found is that with both boys at the moment (ds2 has discovered toddlerhood with a vengeance this week, argh) that I was constantly saying "no", "don't do that", shouting and generally they weren't having a very pleasant time of it either. Made a real conscious effort to only react to one or two bad behaviours that are absolute "nos" (mine for ds2 are throwing toys at people and playing with the on/off switch on the tv) and then praising them up the second they do something even vaguely well behaved! "Oh, good walking, ds1" for the millisecond that he's actually walking nicely beside me on the way home from school. "Thank you, ds2, that was good tidying" when for once he's handed over a toy that I'm trying to put away rather than flinging it at my head. It's made the atmosphere nicer, I'm getting less stressed about the less important stuff and the boys seem to be reacting by having more "nice" moments in the day than bad moments.

• I'd be inclined to step back a bit and either ignore the pasta jar or only use it for one behaviour that you REALLY can't tolerate at the moment. Just work on one thing at a time. So you might decide that your day would be more survivable if he would just get dressed quickly in the morning - so maybe ham up the praise for "oh wow, ds1, you got those socks on fast! Bet you can't get your trousers on as quick... Oh you can! Well done! That deserves a piece of pasta for your jar!" completely ignoring the fact that it took half an hour for him to get his shirt on...

Does that help at all?

Thought of something else I do. I look at the day in half hour blocks and give myself rewards for surviving each of them . "Okay, I'm going to play nicely with ds2 and be calm and good mummyish throughout, then I can make myself a cup of tea." I also change activities in half hour blocks too... so will suggest to the boys we'll go for a walk or drag the trains out or read a book after a half hour "slot". Keeps me from going slowly insane, and I only have to focus on behaving well for short spaces of time

QoQ, I think the best piece of advice ever has got to be "Pick your battles". Like GeorginaA says, it might be best to concentrate on the really unacceptable stuff, such as shoving his little brother. Personally, I have given up even trying to do things like make my DS1 and DS2 sit on the sofa. As long as they are not knocking spots off one another or breaking things, I turn a blind eye to most things.

dino - he will usually sit on the sofa quite happily - it's part of his 'evening routine' -

Anyhow, today is going so much better.

We 'restarted' the pasta jar today. With a 'new' treat once it's full - some time on the Cbeebies website - his face lit up

This morning, we put 7 pieces of pasta in a little plastic tuppaware type box, and I only had to tell him off once (for smacking his brother with a metal car ). He's only just got back from school - so this afternoon could be a different story...

However he's 'buzzing' as he's just seen a laminated "my first world map" that I bought with his Woolworths voucher that he got for his birthday (he ADORES maps and is fascinated by them - something he gets from me - actually the only thing so far I've seen that he gets from me LOL).

Lunchtime we had a miracle though! He asked if he could go and do a poo!!! I know it doesn't sound that grand for a 5yr old. But we've had 'poo issues' since he was toilet trained 2yrs ago. It was only about 5 months ago that we finally stopped having every poo in the pants. But now we keep his poos "regulated" by making him do one (or 2 or 3, or sometimes even 4 ) on bath nights (alternate nights). We've only had the occasioinaly accident, but he's NEVER said he needs to do one...........well unless he's been for a wee and realised he's got some in his pants.

So for him to say before there was anything in his pants was amazing - he got 3 pasta pieces for that one.

They won't understand the significance of the jar til you swap the pieces for the rewards at the end of the week. DS2 claimed not to care occasionally but boy did he care when he only got 10p pocket money at the end of the week!!

oh soupy - he understands - he's extremely excited about playing on the Cbeebies website once his jar is filled up

Brilliant - have been thinking of you today

Brilliant QoQ!

I've jinxed myself. Ds1 has come back from school in a FOUL mood and now I'm in one too...

I'm really pleased QoQ

QoQ: how's it going?