Hey wigwambam can i have a word?

[Donbean]

Hope you dont mind me calling you like that, im SO gobby me!
I was just reading your post on the self asteem thread and im interested in what you said about your mum. She sounds very similar to mine.
I have never ever in life met any one with a mother like mine, until now, reading what you say it sounds like they are the same person!
Would you mind me chatting to you about it?
I understand if you would rather not, if it would be too upsetting or what ever, its just i am so curious now.

wwb and donbean, I'm sorry if it's intrusive to post on this thread but I've just read it with tears in my eyes. I'm sorry that you both had such awful childhoods and impressed that you are both able to talk about it and determined that the cycle of violence ends with you and that your children will have better from you.

thanks www, lovely of you to say and to take the time to read my sorry tale of woe!
I will have really depressed you now for the rest of the day! Sorry!

No, not intrusive at all, www. Thank you for your kind words.

Donbean, don't feel bad - it wasn't you who made me cry, it's just all this stuff from so long ago that I always think is behind me but is never far enough away. I agree wholeheartedly with your last post - we are good people and we do deserve to be happy. So do our children, and at least we have managed to break the cycle and can hold our heads up that we're doing what we can.

And I'm having a little snivel again now, but it's good - it's all good. I'm smiling at the same time.

Its all good indeed!

What makes you happy in your life wwb?
What aspect can you hold up your hands and say "this by far out weighs any thing that has ever happened to me in my life"?

Sorry to butt into your thread like this, but I have to say you sound like two very brave ladies.
I am now going to have to explain to dp's nephew why I am sniffing over they keyboard.

May i suggest that you all go over to the Alan Partridge thread, ive just had tears running down my face at it, it is absolutely fantastic and will cheer you all up loads!

The simple answer to the last part of your quesion is my dd. No question about that. Time spent with her, and the privilege of seeing her turning into such a nice child outstrips anything.

Simple things that I never did as a child ... if we're in the car, being able to stop (or ask dh to stop) before we get to our destination and look at things, visit places. Having dh feel proud of me when I achieve things ... him coming and seeing me in a play (for example) doesn't negate the fact that my mother didn't bother to turn up to my first clarinet recital, but it makes me happy that someone actually wants to do that for me. Being able to ask a question without fear that I'll be scoffed for it or belted for it.

Finding myself made me happy too - not being the person I was when I was young. Realising that not everyone is someone to be scared of, and realising that actually, other people quite like me sometimes. Not always being too scared to speak to people.

Being in control of my life makes me happy. Knowing that whatever I do I'm doing (even if it's only sitting on my bum on MN) it because I have chosen to, and not because it's what someone else thinks is good for me.

Ah, I don't know ...

Sorry to make you sniffle, fuzzywuzzy ... I think this thread should probably have come with a health warning and a free box of tissues!

You see, even that strikes a chord with me.
"asking questions without bieng scoffed at or hit".... Or humiliated.
Going out places without bieng humiliated, shouted at, called names sworn at and hit.
To this day, i try to be descreet, unnasuming and as insignificant as i can be.
The asking of questions is a MASSIVE hangover for me especially in my job.
I feel sick some times because i dont understand what has been said and i cannot ask, i just cant.
It has taken a long time to become me.
Every thing for me has been hard hard graft, all of my achievements have been earned with extreme determination and hard graft.
The hardest thing has been recognising that i do have potential, that i am capable and that i can do it.
I am ALWAYS waiting to be found out though, found out for bieng stupid and incapable, not as good at it as every one else.
This however is also true of simple every day things too.
Just putting this down has made me connect my lack of confidence with my upbringing. It has never occurred to me that the two were linked but of course they are.

It has affected me more than i care to admit, i still suck my thumb, im 35 FFS.

Lack of confidence has everything to do with your upbringing. Not being able to speak out and ask questions is all part of it - all those things that you learned in your first few years are hard to unlearn. I can't always do it happily but it makes me pleased and proud when I do ... it wasn't until my mid to late 30s that I got to a place where I felt I could do it at all.

Being able to talk to dh about it helps, and the fact that he doesn't always want to put things right. Just having him there to listen while I talk or cry has at least let me feel that my feelings are as valid as anyone else's and that my voice deserves to be heard as much as anyone else's.

I feel stupid and incapable quite a lot, although I know in my heart of hearts that I'm not. I do often keep quiet when in the company of people I don't know because I think I'll make an arse of myself. But gradually it dawned on me that sometimes when I talk to people they listen. Sometimes when I say something, they find it interesting or amusing. And so it gets easier with people that I know, and it gets easier to find the courage to meet and get to know new people.

It's mainly since dd was born that I've found it easier to do those things - for her sake. I forced myself to speak to other mothers for her sake. I forced myself to face the fear of being laughed at for her sake. It was a shame in a way that I waited until I was 38 to have her because it also meant I waited until I was 38 to realise that I am a worthwhile person to talk to. Even if still sometimes I doubt that.

I feel more important since i had ds.
I was 33 when i had him. I took complete control over his conception and my pregnancy. Planned carefully, took folic acid etc so that no one could tell me i was doing it wrong.
My confidence has gained imeasurably since he came along too.
Striking up converstations with other mothers, putting myself forward is very difficult for me. I tend to be drawn towards people who i percieve to be equally as nervous and shy as me. I avoid those who are loud and confident because they carry the threat of making me feel daft/innadequate/stupid.
Where my son is concerned i have suddenly got this urge to do what is right by him. For example, he has started play group 3 weeks ago and it is nothing short of excruciating for me to go into this place. However i am so overwhelmed with the need to protect and find out what is happening to my child within the time he is not with me that i actually seek out the carers and ask them.
In fact it never occurred to me not to ask them questions about him!
This action would have been unheard of pre ds.

When ds was 5 months old i did a parenting course, such was my panic at doing the right thing, not perpetrating my parenting experiences.
It was fantasic and i learned loads but what i learned mostly was that all the stuff they were teaching i had in my head any way. I knew how to do it and i knew that there was a better way of doing the job that i have in front of me.
I was secretly proud of myself for that.
People actually said to me "what are you doing that course for, you shouldnt have kids if you dont know how to do it"
HELLO!

Apart from the parenting course, I could have written your last post so I know exactly what you mean. I found playgroups and play centres absolute torture but forced myself to take dd to them, despite the horrors. You just have to do what's right by your children - I'm not sure that we're much different to anyone else there, but the responses to being around other people certainly are.

I think you should be extraordinarily proud of yourself for wanting to do the parenting course and make as good a job of it as you can. I think that you shouldn't be secretly proud of it either; you should be shouting from the rooftops about it. And as for not having children if you don't know how to do it ... I don't think anyone has children knowing exactly how they're going to raise them. I knew nothing about children until I had dd; having been one doesn't prepare you for it, and even if you've had the perfect upbringing, even having seen your parents do it doesn't prepare you for it either. It can't; being a parent is a unique relationship and a unique position which you just can't understand until you get the job. All I knew was that dd wasn't going to be raised like I was; the rest I've just made up as I've gone along!

So do you have a bad temper, if so, how do you control it?

I am not going to sit here and try to give you the impression that i am some serene mother Mary who just patiently nods fondly at her off spring when he floods the bathroom floor using the contents of the toilet.
No i WANT to become a screaming wailing banshee, i want to grab him and throw him through the window with exsasperation and disbelief that he has done this (amongst many) evil deed!
This deserves a shouting at IMHO because it is unnaceptable behaviour.
BUT i still feel utterly utterly crushed and devastated at my loss of control and thoughts of doing this to him.
But its perfectly normal, this i know because i have got a big pile of every self help parenting book ever published and because at least a dozen other women have admitted to feeling like this on occasion on this web site!
This fab fab web site that complete strangers come onto and reassure me and help me understand and tell me "its ok, i do that".

Thats the difference you see, behaviour that deserves liberal and appropriate punishment, vs asking a question like "whats for tea mum?" and getting a torrent of abuse and told to "shut your fucking stupid mouth and dont speak to me again today"
Thats the difference between me and her.

Serene I'm not! I have been known to go to the bottom of the garden and scream and scream when dd was a baby and I was frustrated that I couldn't stop her crying. In my head I kept thinking that if I could just throw her out of the window or bang her against the wall then it would all stop. And that's normal - feeling that way is normal. It's acting on it that isn't.

Yes, sometimes I get cross and sometimes I shout, but I don't shout abuse at her, and I don't call her names. I try not to, I try to react calmly in the face of all the stuff that all 4 year olds do, but if I do lose my rag unjustifiably, I apologise to her and explain why I was ratty. I'd rather bite my own hand off than hit her or call her names though - even if in my head I'm swearing and ranting at her.

I generally get cross and frustrated rather than getting angry and showing my temper, most of the time I sit on it fairly well. And I also find it reassuring that there are other people on this site who feel exactly the same way, and are happy to own up to it.

LOL! bite your own hand off!
No i dont call him names and i dont hit him.
I am forever praising him and saying how lovely he is.
I struggle to say to him "i love you". I struggle with this terribly. Why FFS?!
A friend said to her little boy "ooh i do love you" and i really liked this so i say that to him now. It comes out with such ease, this way of saying it just flows for me.
Isnt that apauling, i cant say to my precious child " i love you" without feeling uncomfortable.
Strange old lady me!

That's very sad. I had problems with saying it to dd at first; I would actually go so far as to say that I didn't love her when she was first born. I would never have done anything to hurt her, and I would have walked over hot coals to protect her, but I didn't love her.

I do now, and I make sure that I tell her every day. It gets easier, particularly when dd is so demonstrative. She tells me she loves me so often, and it's hard not to say it back! Although you're right, the "I do love you" is actually easier to say. I hate to admit it but most of the times I tell her I love her, it's in response to her telling me that she loves me. Which she does at least two dozen times a day, so there's no shortage of an excuse for a response!

Don't be too hard on yourself because you struggle to say it - you might find it hard, but you still say it, and there's nothing appalling about that.