*Help* DD taking any sweets, chocolate, crisps without permission and then not owning up to it

[kath4kids]

DD 2 11 yr old is taking sweets, crisps, chocolate biscuits and hiding the evidence in her room.

Sweets were going missing and have challenged both children about it previously and neither admitted to it.

But dd1 has just come home early from school as she just done a sponsered walk and i asked her if she had taken 3 packs of sweets/chocolate that we have discovered missing today and she said no but i know where the jelly baby bag is and took me to dd2 bedroom only to discover about 20 empty crisp, chocolate, sweet wrappers in drawers, storage boxes etc.

Now what am I going to do coz when i challenge her she will deny it, but when i present her with the evidence she will make some excuse.

Any ideas?

I have always taught them to tell the truth and they will get in less trouble than if they lie and the truth later comes out.

I don't think she is hungry so why is she doing this?

I wish I had the answers to so many parenting issues. She assures me that nothing is bothering her and i don't think it is as she has been doing this off and on for years especially when i think back to christmas and easter when dd1 chocolate goes missing.

I just wonder though if she does it because she knows that if she asked everytime she wanted sweets the answer would usually be no for reasons of teeth, unhealthy eating patterns.

But just wonder if i have turned her too much the other way where she feels that the only option is to sneak things.

Either way there seems no easy answer as both would be unhealthy eating patterns as an adult i.e either eating stuff in secret or eating too much rubbish.

Does she eat big meals? Is she always saying she is hungry?

I used to steal the biscuits (all of them) from the tin as a child and it was discovered later that I had a dangerously over-active thyroid which made my metabolism run fast, hence constant hunger.

Probably not likely to be this but perhaps a check up could eliminate a medical reason for her behaviour.

Do you think that she might have a problem with sugar, I mean a craving strong enough that the consequences don't seem as important as the desire for sweets? That might be why she can't tell you why she does it, she probably just knows that she wants it.

Even if she doesn't have a strong craving you could approach the problem as though she does. Tell her that you think her body craves sugar more than her will power can control, but you will help her. Lay out a plan that you think will work and spell it out to her, and never give her an opportunity to lie by asking her if she has taken sweets, just say that you believe that she has and put your plan into operation. eg

"If sweets go missing I will assume that you have done it because you have lied about it in the past. To help your body control it's craving for sugar we will cut down on treats if you steal sweets and only gradually re-introduce them after 2 weeks if no more sweets go missing."

She is a pain in the neck with food. Always has been, she will graze all day but sit her down to a meal and it is a nightmare, she is always the last to finish, she always leaves stuff. Then more often than not she asks if she can have crisps, biscuits etc, half hour later. She always sits with one foot on the floor ready to run as soonas she has finished. She is never tired or never admits to it anyway. More often than not she is still awake when i go to bed at 10.30 11.00ish, she never lies in, or if she does its only till 8ish.

We have often said that she needs to see a doctor but never done anything about it she is so hyper. I know that sweets make her worse so try to encourage her to have chocolate instead.

she has always been the model child in school and seems to have split personality. in some areas she is so clever but in others she has absolutly no common sense at all. Her answer is 'I'm a blonde whats your excuse?'

what on earth am i going to do with her.

that sounds good bran, maybe i need to allow her a daily intake of sugur but what is a resonable amount? A packet of sweets everyday? a few times a week? Thing is we don't generally buy sweets, and they only usually turn up from grandparents etc. they are definatly not part of the weekly shopping. I think looking back maybe she has taken money before now maybe there were no sweets here and the money ws within easy access

Blimey, Kath, that is so uncanny. You could be describing my DD1-- have even called dh through to read your post and he can't believe how similar it is to our situation either!

This week I took the unprecedented step of buying 3 packets of 'Proper Chocolate Wrapped-up Biscuits' in the supermarket, going on the theory that if I allow them one each when they get home from school (every day and only one) all the mystery and uncertainty and longing for and not getting chocolate will disappear. I counted them when I put them in the tin, and worked out how long they should last, and (touch wood) so far seem to have the right number left. It is only Wednesday though!

I agree with so much that you say. I feel that I say no too often and am trying to counter-balance it this way. My DD is as thin as a whippet so weight gain isn't a problem, but I worry that she eats too much of the wrong thing and hardly anything 'good'. She is very easily put off food if it is remotely 'visceral'-- things like fat on meat make her totally turn off. I'm worried she'll live on packaged and processed food whenever she can choose because it seems so much more pleasant.

Oh dear, am rambling now. All these issues have been on my mind for too long!

3 princesses your not rambling. Thing is they do have choc bisc on occassions in their lunch box. They make their own lunches and know that they have to vary what they put in there i.e they are not allowed a choc bisc every day or crisps everyday.

She is very picky with lots of things but will polish off a roast dinner no problem, as long as its the veg she likes. Swede, parsnip, cabbage, sweet potatoe, tomatoes unless passatta, lettuce, mushrooms, green beans, onions she doesnt like and always leaves on the plate.

I still think this is about control rather than sweets!

I think you have to mentor her to establish her own control over sweet things - talk about how you control cravings for things. Talk about moderation rather than banning.

She is very very soon going to have to control this for herself and I think you need to give her the tools to do this- in mucn the same way as you would over drugs and sex.

She is clearly drawn to sweet things - but many of us are to chocolate, alcohol, drugs, all kinds of things. What is important is not what we are addicted to but what skills we deploy to manage those potential addictions!

Of course you are not a bad mother - but neither is she a bad daughter...

soapbox i know she is not a bad daughter, she is lovely, fun, lively, spirited, but at times she drives me insane.

Ah! But don't they all

I suspect that we drive them insane too - but what the hell we're all we've got, so we make the best of it

this is exactly like my ds, (and to a point dd1 who simply follows ds and takes things too) ds is 13 and dd1 is 11. I cant bear them to eat junk but agreed to buy limited amounts of 'semi-sensible' junk foods for adding to lunchboxes.....but of course this is the stuff that goes missing, plus sweets from grandparents. when I question and/or catch out ds he will simply say hes hungry. as he is already chubby with puppy fat -hopefully pre his teen growth spurt- i do watch what he eats, so I guess he could still feel hungry sometimes.
but its not the point, I hate him stealing from me, I hate the lies and deception he goes thro, and like someone said earlier, wonder if this could lead to stealing money etc as he gets older.
fabulous point made about control and 'letting go some of it' (which I would find very hard and may have to do some soul searching on)
he has stolen sweets and treats since he was much younger. howcome I would never of dared do that at his age?!! i can indeed be pretty scary too.
just wanted to say to posters with children doing just the same, you are not alone!!!

it is so good to hear that mine is not the only one.

but now do i have to punish her for the lies. or maybe i should start another thread

IMO, yes, -the lying is the biggest 'bugbear' I hve over this. mine get punished for any lying. ANY treats were banned for certain periods and a not so nice chore given to them too.
granny was also told not to bring sweets anymore. (she wasnt too happy but grandparents and the crap they feel obliged to dish out is a whole other thread!!!)

kath4kids - I read an article by Diane Levy (NZ family therapist and very sensible lady) about trapping children into lies.

She says that kids will stop at nothing to deny things, even with the evidence presented to them, the first lie sets off a chain of events.

Her advice was simply to say "I know you have been taking sweets, there are wrappers all over your room, now we are going to talk about what we are going to do about this."

As you are simply making a statement - there is nothing for her to deny.

I know it's done now - but do you think that sounds reasonable?

i know this sounds simple but....

if i have sweets in the house - i would think my kids extremely strange if they didn't do what your kids do.

now, i have chocolate biscuit bars for lunchboxes in the fridge - when they are all gone - its hard shit - they all gone and you have no choccy bar for lunch box.

but we do have snackable food. they can make a sandwich and often do for supper time ish. or there is always fruit, crackers, but they know that if they have eaten their tea - i am not going to say no.

so am thinking this is a bit like putting temptation before them and asking then to be ever so saintly. and i kinda think thats unfair. if grandma come with swetts - i would divvy them out between the kids and say - when your share is gone - its gone tough luck.

I agree with custado. That's what my mum did and it worked for us. If there's stuff I want to ration then I'll put it right out of reach of my boys but if your girl's 11 I think Custy's approach is much better.

And have just noticed that Tinker's been called snide. The cheek of it. She's lovely, actually, and not snide at all!

I do ration them out between them but she takes everyone elses share too. She knew the jelly babies were for the babies as nanny had bought them all sweets they had eaten theirs the jelly babies were put in the cupboard for the babies. She knows that milky bar buttons are for the babies and yet there were umpteen wrappers in her bedrom. If the sweets are hers then fine but the fact that she is taking everyone elses and then blaming everyone else is unfair.

Its more about the lying than it is the sweets tbh

custardo, that sounds like a very sensible way to do things. My mother was incredibly "controlling" over what my brother and i could eat and when and I have so many issues with food.

I am trying so hard to be different with my kids and it seems to be working. They have their own "treat" box- all chocolate no sweets - and have something out of it most nights after supper. If they don't it is their choice as they may ask for something else instead. My ds1 has been known to take two bites out of a small choc bar and then decide he's had enough - that absolutely amazes me.

This morning I told my DD to go and brush her (very obviously unbrushed) hair. 'I've already done it', she said, disappearing upstairs. Came down a few minutes later with it still like a birdsnest. I took her by the hand, into the bedroom and held out the brush to her. 'But I've done it! I've done it!' she kept shouting. I did one side to show her the difference and prove to her that it was obvious that she wasn't telling the truth. She still wouldn't back down.

So, is this kind of delusion/barefaced lying part of the same problem as the taking stuff she knows she shouldn't have? Perhaps they've just reached that age when they think they are old enough to know better than us. (my DD has just gone into year 6 and obviously thinks that as she's top of the tree at school she is similarly smarter than the rest of us at home) I wonder if they are seeing how much they can get away with before we really crack down on them, in which case would being stricter be the answer (as in, no, you can't get one over on me?) or is it better to give them the control they want (and go to school looking like an urchin/get away with eating everyone else's share of chocolate, and not challenge the lie?).

As always, I seem to be treading a very uncomfortable line between wanting to be liberal and feeling the need to be Victorian...

kath4kids - I used to take choccy biccies etc when I was a child. In my case, it was because I was hungry. My mother didnt seem to care or realise that our school meals were not nice and I wasnt eating them. Also, she was very proud of the fact that our sweet eating was limited to once a week, but I craved sweet things. I dont have a weight problem now though.

My mother brought us up to believe that taking any food from the cupboard outside meal times was stealing.
I think this is very wrong. A child in their own house should be able to help themselves to food without feeling that they are a thief. Chocolate biscuits arent a problem to me, but my relationship with the world around me has been a big problem, and part of it is the various strategies that my mother used to control us when we were children.

If it was my daughter, I wouldnt make a big issue out of her honesty etc, or push her to tell lies.
In our house, taking food is not a crime.
I limit my own children's consumption of sweets and chocolates by keeping them hidden so that the children dont know that they are even in the house, or by telling them not to touch specific things eg "these cakes are for school lunches. dont take them because then we wont have any next week for school." I also have a zero tolerance policy on taking cakes in the runup to meal times. It works most of the time, though we have the odd failure.

Nighty nite I'm not trying to control her, but it isn't fair when she's eaten everyone elses sweets as well as her own and she knows they are not hers.
3 princesses part of it must be growing up and making decisions for them selves, i believe they have to grow up with some standards and morals and politeness. You only have to go into any senior school or have anything to do with teenagers today to see first hand that kids think they have a right to things and that no one can tell them what tO do.

yes, I can see your point kath. I think custard is right about removing temptation though.
Personally I wouldnt punish for this, or push her to confess. If I knew she had done it (and you do sound fairly sure) Id just favour her with my opinion about selfish people, tell her how disappointed the others will be when they dont have anything etc etc. then keep things hidden in future.