nightmare social occasions

[jmb1964]

We've just returned from lunch with friends who live in the country. The whole outing was arranged so that ds 1 (nearly 6, Aspergers) could see an old friend of his from nursery (and I get on well with the Mum too). Unfortunately ds1 and Sam fell out as soon as we got there, and there was a lot of hitting, kicking, etc. I wanted to turn round and come home, but dd1 and our two younger ones were having a nice time with Sam's younger brother, and they hadn't done anything wrong. So we stayed - Sam's parents were fine about it, but his grandparents were clearly thinking I should be handling things differently. Ds1 got so worked up, his asthma and eczema flared up (or perhaps it was hayfever), and he scratched madly all the way home.
Should I just GIVE UP trying to do things like this at all? Maybe ds1 just can't do socialising with 'normal' children, but what does that mean for the rest of the family?

It's the best thing to read you've seen your son do new things, like dressing up. Hats off to you and your ds

I might need to post more than one message since I'll probably lose my train of thought, so please bear with me.

Starting with the poo smearing and whether I could stand it question. Well yes, I could. I certainly wouldn't run away in horror. If you sensed I felt at all awkward, this would be because I might feel you wanted to get rid of me and cut the visit short, especially if I didn't know you too well. I would leave with regret, not relief.

I still wipe my youngest son's bottom. I have cleaned up more little boy sick and cat sick than I care to mention. My son is sick if he gets very upset and that's about twice a month.

Different I know but my son loves to wee in public and to undress himself given half a chance. If I don't lock our front door he is prone to run naked onto the pavement in hot weather, shout happy and loud hello's to whatever children are playing out, and wee happily and defiantly in front of our house. All a bit Keith Richards.

Only a few weeks ago, I was on a beach with friends and my ds decided he wanted a wee. He made straight for a hole we had dug yards away from where we were all sitting with our bbq, I tried to carry him away but it was too late, he pulled down his shorts and wee-ed happily leaving me to cover up his puddle with sand. My dh got pretty uptight about it.

I laugh it off. It doesn't keep me awake at night. My dh will get on to me for not bothering in fact. But then, and isn't this is where the crunch is, I haven't been told my son is in any way SN and he does know what a loo is and for 99% of the time will go in it. If I had been told my son was SN, I might not have this attitide.

And that leads me on to this point. I have generally wild, loud, sociable but in your face sort of sons. Put them next to some quiet, more docile, more studious, less attention demanding NT children and they are not quite the same as them either. I know it's not the same gap as a severly autistic child and an NT child, but the point I am making is that ( as of course you know) that not all NT children are the same, and as the years go by, if you don't get to know many NT children well, then is there a danger you will attribute higher standards of behaviour/attainment/powers of reasong to NT children than really exist?

Sorry, wanted to say more to you jimjams, but I have to dash away again.

jimjams, back to the woman on the ferry. She was travelling with her dh, whom I briefly spoke to, her 11 year old son, (not autistic) and friends (two adults, two children), so there were a fair few adults around to look after the children. She told me her oldest son (aged 5 and a bit) had only recently started talking and his autism wes much more severe than his younger bothers, who was talking as many of his age do. The older boy often echoed what was last said to him, I soon realised this and she was at pains to point this out to me. She decribed one or two other things, like him needing medication to fall asleep at night, but I don't know if this meant he has a severe form of autism. The thing that most struck me was how much she said he had progressed as he got older, as in the talking achievement. Looking at my son playing with her sons, I think she might have assumed my son was also possibly SN in some way. They were a very loud and lively trio.

I also wanted to say, I am learning a lot( as usual) about your take on autism from these posts jimjams. The constant thinking ahead about routine thing especially. I know I would find that a very, very hard way of living if I was in your shoes, just because of the way I am. And also your explanation that while on one practical level you think ahead, on another level you don't want to look far into the future. I hope you get lots more news like the hat news to give you hope.

And yes, I'd still like to meet up sometime

I did reply but it doesn;t seem to be here. the computer crashed so maybe it disappeared then, or maybe its on the worng thread,

I may have given the wrong impression here. I do mix with NT families- just a select few I think I see enough to give me an idea of what is normal(ish). I learn a lot from ds2 as well. I was stunned when he got his shoes last week when I told him to (I remember when I friend told me her son did that when he was 18 months I thought she had a genius child!)

You talk quite a bit about your children being a little bit different which means that you are exactly the sort of NT mum I do mix with. With the exception of one (who was a very good friend and was there right from the beginning when I started having doubts about ds1) all my NT friends have slightly unusual family circumstances. Maybe you're not the best person to talk to about having problems mixing with NT's as you sound like the sort of person I could mix with quite easily `(along with a lot of other Mum's on this thread). Saying I don;t mix with NT's was a generalisation- I do, although like Davros on a day to day basis I tend to mix with other auti families.

The routine thing is funny- I am the worst person for routine. I think its qite lucky really as otherwise I'm sure ds1 would be even more fixed on routine! Thank god I wasn't a GF mum - I dread to think what my life would be like now. It's not so much big routine, it's just these little things become a way of life. For example if we get in the car and I've forgotten something I don't got back for it unless it is an absoute necesssity because I know ds1 would go ballistic. Likewise if someone visiting says they are going, they can;t change their mind becuase ds1 will be behind them shoving them out of the door until they've gone. Some things are a pain (like the guy showing us to the wrong cabin on the ferry)- becuase you just have to try and ride out the screaming. I assume this will improve with language if it ever happens.

Sleep problems are common in autistic children (both severe and high functioning) and a lot of auti kids use melatonin to get to sleep. We're lucky as generally ds1 sleeps well. If he wakes he is then awake for 2 hours (he tends to go thorugh phases of waking) but he stays in his room. Some poor souls I know have to get up and get dressed whenever their child wakes - as getting up is what you "do" when you are awake, and their child is too severely autistic to make any more sense of the world. We have it easy.

I think the constant playing through scenarios and watching for flashpoints is one of the hardest things about autism. I don't think ahead at al when I'm with ds2 but it has become automatic with ds1. Little example we (as in dh and I) not to put on ds1's shoes until we are absolutely ready to go out- otherwise all hell will break out. Those sorts of routines just become second nature.

Once again, and like others, there are whole areas here that I wouldn't even have thought about before Mumsnet, so huge thanks to all of you (especially Jimjams) who bother to post and share sometimes difficult personal experiences and insights.
I think with 4 children (7,5, 2 and 1) we would qualify as a not-terribly-NT family anyway, but our ds1 is 'wild, in your face' etc in the extreme. Pre-diagnosis people would come round and disappear again sooner than might have been expected, asking loudly how I managed it all. Now I suppose I at least feel we have an excuse, but I HAVE stopped seeing some of the more shockable people, and discovered some wonderful friends who are unfazed.
Going back to one of Jimjams' points from way back, we are moving away from the desire to Do Things Together As A Family, finding that we often all have a nicer time if we split ourselves and the children up a bit. There aren't many situations where I can easily handle all of them for more than a few hours, and I don't really expect anyone else to either, which is why I'm delighted the older two are going back to school next week (but if I say that to some people they go on about how the holidays have flown by, isn't it sad they aren't longer, hasn't the weather been sooooper etc, making me feel as if I must hate my children or something.)
Oh and the paranoia - dh thinks I am ridiculously sensitive to people looking at us (like in a lighting shop today - excruciating situation, all those wonderful glittery technical things, and not allowed to touch any of them, and having to wait while me and dh tried to decide about things.. I just had to leave dh to it in the end).
Perhaps with time we will grow more confident with the way things are, and really cease to care what other people think. For me it feels a long way off, and I try not to expose ourselves too much, but Jimjams I think you must be well on the way. What I think you need is time for you, but I can fully understand that must be pretty damn hard... Do you sometimes literally forget who you are? I nearly convinced myself that I couldn't eat pasta without tomato ketchup on it the other day, before remembering that that's ds1 (and dd1 won't touch it if tomato sauce is anywhere near..)
Sorry if this has rambled rather - I had a lot to catch up on!
Thanks again to all of you, and I do hope not everyone thinks the whole thread has been a waste of time.

This thread has been extremely thought-provoking. Thanks, jimjams, for continuing to respond so eloquently. At the beginning of the thread I didn't quite see it but I think I do now. And it has made me more concerned about a friend of mine...

She has a ds age 6 who, I believe, has been diagnosed with global development disorder. I don't really know what this means. It's taken a long time to get to this diagnosis. And my friend doesn't seem to know much about the diagnosis either. He doesn't talk, is not toilet trained, but does have some understanding - can respond to simple instructions. He's quite unco-ordinated. He also has some peculiar habits and needs routine and constancy. I would love to help my friend more and/or to understand her son more. In many ways I think she is in some sort of denial. She doesn't seem to mix at all with SN mums. Refused to consider building some sort of library of flash cards recommended by his school to help him communicate (she wants him to talk). She won't consider respite care for him to give the family a break. I would babysit him but don't feel qualified to - I wouldn't understand what he wanted if he got upset for example. How can I help her? Any suggestions gratefully received.

Jmb- no we don't do browsing in shops either. Ds1 will only allow shopping if I can pick things up without stopping! I used to love shopping, I actually hate it now (even when I'm by myself- I get all edgy).

I'm not sure I am very used to people looking at me. I still find it incredibly stressful- and I tend to start shouting at people around me. for example yesterday - what I hadn;t realised is that we couldn't get from the craft fair into the house and grounds- which meant we rushing around dragging a screaming ds1, whacking himself in the face (it's that that particularly makes people stare) trying desperately to find the entrance. I did end up shouting at some first aiders "where's the entrance to the house" and when they said we had to go outside again and back in another way I did find myself saying "oh for god's sake" before shouting a thanks over my shoulder as we moved off. Obvioulsy not the first aiders fault at all. I tend to fix my eyes ahead in those situation, repeat a phrase over and over to ds1 "not that gate this gate" and just try and get on with doing whatever needs to be done to stop the tantrum. It is hard.

alterego-global developmental delay tends to be something they use when they can't think of anything else. When was he diagnosed- it can take a long time to come to terms with a diagnosis. I get told by people like the nursery manager that I am very accepting of ds1's problems but it's still raw and there are still so many things I find hard (like mixing with NT families!) If your friend hasn't accepted the diagnosis there really isn't much you can do except hang around. Just ask after him' How's he doing?, have you had any more appointements?" etc so that if she does want to talk about it in the future you give her an opening.

It sounds like the school want her to use PECS. PECS really does help speech development (if you type PECS and speech development into google you should get a lot of hits). YOu might find something you could print out and say "oh don't know if thisis any interest to you but I saw it when browsing for somthing or other" (but beware- you could get it thrown back in your face if she really isn't accepting the diagnosis at all) I've found that if I want my ds1 to learn a phrase I PECS it out, and he will learn that phrase within a day. He doesn;t pick it up from speech alone. However haing said that I do find it very difficult to use PECS at home. PArtly we're not structured enough. I have symbols all round the house but ds2 tends to walk off with them! Aslo we understand ds1 so somehow da da mmdan, or nanig nan, or mmmm dadee deen, or daheeen is much easier to respond to than a blasted PECS board. Sometimes I just want to be ds1's mother and not his therapist as well.

Respite's a tricky one as often the type of resite needed isn't available. You could suggest to her that she applies direct payments if she ever needs it. it allows her to pay someone (of her choosing) to help out. My friend ist rying to get it so she can employ someone to come for a couple of hours a day in a mother's help type role. Direct payments are relatively new- but your local social services should have some info. Could you offer to look after her son for half an hour initially- and build up vwry slowly. Even 10 minutes to let her pop to the shops or something. She may refuse- as she may not want to be any trouble, or she may be worried about leaving him with anyone else. You know you could just say something like "oh if you need to pop out for 10 minutes while I'm here to go to the post office or something I'm happy to keep an eye on x", and then take it from there. Not rally respite as such- but that sort of thing is definitely a help.

My Sil works as a respite care worker for two adult men with autism. She has been working with them since they were boys and she has them one weekend a month for 2 days and one overnight stay. They are both highly affected bt their autism. One has no spoken language at all. She says that it is the only way the family can cope with things like shopping etc, is to do it when she has them for the weekend.

I don't think that we are a 'normal' NT family either. As Jimjams know I have had worries about ds, who has had problems with language and behaviour, and is a real 'in your face kid'. We keep to his routine as much as possible as it helps to keep things reasonable. Dd is 6.5 and is NT but still has the most awful tantrums in public. Nothing like autism I know but is does give me some limited understanding of the need to vacate the stituation as soon as possible. On holiday she had a tantrum which started on the beach and went on for 2.5 hours. Some of my friends think that I am mad when I leave social gathering when she starts up. To them it is a minor problem, but I know how fast things deteriorate and that I have to get her home, now so that I can calm her down. I also have to cancel social functions as they can be too traumatic to make them worth while. I realise this isn't the same in degree of stuation, but it does let me understand a little.

2 1/2 hours of tantrums?! omg, the worst my dd1 had once was 5hours with a little sleep in the middle cos she exhausted herself then carried on the tantrum the moment she woke up. i cant even remember what it was about, just remember it was a very long day.

jmb, we too had the most awful time in a Laura Ashley lighting department last year. I was trying to choose a lampshade with my dh, we disagreed over the expense. He walked out of the shop in a huge huff (he hates shopping). Meanwhile my two sons were running from one room set up to another fiddling with all the furnishings, sitting and bouncing on the sofas and singing at the tops of their voices.
Soon I was shouting at them to come and stay with me. There is no way that anyone in that shop could have not heard us. There were looks. I was deeply conscions that other families nearby had quiet children obediently on tow. At times like this, I get to this mad place in my head, if anyone approached me I would have snapped back. But if this doesn't happen I detach myself from what's going on. I cut out. Cease taking sole responsibility for the situation. Decide that if the staff are worried about my son's behaviour and possible damage to items, then they can tell them off. I am there to spend money and get us out asap. Hope that no one I know is in the shop

I pretended my sons had absolutely nothing to do with me and got on with choosing the lampshade(which had to be done there and then). Very literating. Didn't meet other shoppers eyes on the way out. My oldest knows when I get like this - slighty strange - he doesn't like it at all and says I am embarassing him. Good, I say - you embarass me. Relations are strained between us all for a few hours after. They don't get 'nice mummy' or any treats. I feel horribly wound up inside still, but know at least I fulfilled the aim of the shopping trip.

To be fair to dd I didn't handle this one very well, and that is part of the reason that it lasted so long. She is always worse in the holidays, as she missed the stimulation that school gives her. When she had the 2.5er she had had a tantrum every day for 4.5 weeks! So I was at the end of my teather (see another thread by that name!). Since the 2.5er she has been wonderful and great fun. Hormones anyone???

But I wanted the sand to swallow me up when she started. It was because I didn't get her sunglasses for her as soon as she asked for them.... I have long since learned that when she is in this sort of mood the only place to be is home, so that she can get it all out of her system under controled circumstances. I only have myself to blame, I was the same as a kid, and it took me years to learn to contol my temper.

i hate the long tantrums. my dd1 is very trying, i swear she is a teenager already. she also loves being occupied, if things are boring for her then she is literally boucing off the walls. her cousins were round yesterday (hi mieow), and they had great fun getting rid of their energy, it wasnt untill i went into her room later that i found popcorn and pringles covering every inch of her floor, all the bedding pulled off the beds and toys everywhere. i know kids can be kids, but boy did i have a strop over that one. almost as bad as my daughter i am lol.
dd1 rarely had full blown tantrums at home, i think she saves them for when we are out just to embarress me. kids eh.

just wanted to add, jmb. It is easier to detatch my self from situations like this because my son is older. I don't have to keep such a close check on him.

Also, I think I am calmer about my ds2' has instances of wild behaviour simply because I have lived through this before and come out the other side. DS1 was very wild at times but was better the older he got. If it's your first child who is SN could this also could add to the pressures you face - you have no template for the future?

jimjams. I do really feel for you having to play through future scenarios all the time. It wouldn't come naturally to me at all. One of the ways I feel most happy with my chidren is when we live for the moment, when I can give full attention to a spider they have discovered or build a sandcastle with them, without thinking of anything else but the here and now. This doesn't happen a lot, but I do try.

I really hope somehow that you can stop thinking about what others think of you when you're out, because isn't that another way of stopping to live for the moment? It's just not fair that you should have that worry and the routine worry to cloud your time. The routine is a fact of life and has a positive effect in the end, your foresight helps you and your son get through outings etc more smoothly. But what positive effect does the worry about other people have? I hope with time you cultive a big 'S** You' approach - while still having a guardedly friendly attitude to NT parents you encounter when out. Now that is difficult.

maryz- thanks for your comments. As someone else said, it is hard to imagine how things might be in the future, and your experience is heartening.
Tigermoth - ds1 is second child, but dd1 has always been more manageable, at least when we're out (she can choose whether to be a monster or not, whereas I like to thing ds1 can't..)
On a brighter note, I took dd1 and ds1 to see Julia Donaldson at the book festival today, and WE ALL ENJOYED IT!!! Nasty moment at the beginning when the show didn't start on time, but once it got going ds1 was transfixed - what a relief! She's an amazing woman, one of these people who just seems to be on the right wavelength.

Oh dear, I said I wouldn't say any more but... A few things have occurred to me though its been hard keeping up with all these posts! What I'm going to say, of course, is MY experience and for others with AS kids or ASD kids that are hf or lf or just different, it won't be relevant (yes, the "spectrum" effect
The woman on the ferry may have been one of many parents I?ve come across who DON?T want to join the ASD or SEN community and prefer to remain separate from it and, if they?re lucky, don?t need to be part of it. There?s lots of people like that and that?s OK but I?m a serial joiner and I love contact with other people.
I DON?T have a problem with NT kids and/or their parents usually, only those rude and ignorant sods we all come across sometimes. I think I'm a bit further down the line than Jimjams and I certainly DID feel like how she describes a lot of the time at one stage and so did many other people I know, it could be very painful (and still can sometimes). I do still sometimes find what other people consider "problems" a bit mundane and, as Jimjams has said, that is down to me, not them. I don't have much time for forging new friendships but have met people at work and incidentally elsewhere but my main day-to-day friends, other than my sister, sil and nieces, are people with children with SEN of some sort.
Jimjams and I both have FIRST children who are autistic who were therefore our only child at least for a while, and this makes you very different to your peers (tenses?). Jimjams? poo story was a good attempt at giving a real example but the main issue is not a bit of poo but the way the child doesn?t understand your reaction to the behaviour, the level of supervision that is required, the new and interesting things our kids can find to get up to, not being ?monkeys? but being truly strange and unpredictable. My baby girl is only 5 mos old but the difference is unbelievable and she is SOOOOO much easier than my son was then.
Another thing that means autism can take longer to come to terms with is that you start off believing that you've got a "normal" baby, count the fingers, toes, seems to be able to see and hear, no sign of CP etc. You then usually mix with your peer group, other mums with babies of similar age, and that is when you really start to see the differences and it is very, very hard. Its become a cliche but it is likened to bereavement and I DO know nothing compares to the real death of a child. It reminded me of when we had kittens when I was growing up, we'd each pick one as our favourite, give it a name AND a personality, voice, vocabulary etc but in reality it was imaginary and that's how I felt, like I'd "made up" my son?s personality that the "he" that I thought I knew didn't really exist and he was really empty, indifferent and unattached with no individuality (at that stage, he was).
If you're "lucky" you find out that you're right, your child is different but much of the time parents have to fight for a diagnosis. That's just the start for parents dealing with SEN. Our children's difficulties or differences are just the tip of the iceberg although they dominate every aspect of our daily lives. We then have to deal with - Education (SLA, teacher, head teacher, Ed Psych, Statementing, Tribunals etc) - Health (Paed, OT, SLT, Physio etc) - assessment of all and any new theories and we must be able to justify why we do or don't implement them to friends, relatives, professionals, ourselves and, yes, acquaintances and strangers - ?leisure? activities (suitability, access, logistics etc) - support groups (attending and running them) ? campaigning ? ?alternative? therapies (diet, homeopathy, secretin, B6 & Magnesium, Vitamin E, Irlen lenses etc) ? DLA and other benefits - Passing all this experience on to new parents. And that's just off the top of my head........ !! Somewhere during this process we learn to accept our kids, really get to know them and to love them for who they are, not just because we have to.
I'm not looking for pity because I'm now quite well adjusted and I?ve got good at all of this but it really is a parallel universe. Its been interesting and rewarding and has given me a lot of confidence and even some respect but, as I said before, I'd give it all up tomorrow. Normally I don?t tell people all of this, they don?t need to know and god forbid I hope they never have to find out for themselves.

I havent had time to read the whole thread but just wanted to say Davros your last post was lovely and I can relate SO much to what you have written.

Davros, what a beautiful and eloquent post. All of it is so true.

Rebi & Flo2, thanks so much. I just got in from the shops and thought I'd better send another message because trying to explain something from your own pov can sound so pompous and self-centred. Not sure its always a good idea to write a grand tome late at night!!! I also spoke a lot FOR Jimjams and didn't necessarily get it right from her pov........

Again, I am moved by the posts on this thread. And by the degree of acceptance you have achieved.

jimjams - you're right - my friend simply wouldn't trust anyone to look after her ds for any period of time - the only break she gets is when he goes to school. But, from what I see, he is getting easier with time - he does have a degree of communication and the tantrums are not so frequent. I think her mil babysits occasionally but she doesn't like it, especially as mil for a long time was very unsupportive. I have looked after him for the odd half hour a couple of times. And I take her other child places too. I'm just concerned that she never gets a break and he has been very demanding of her both practically and emotionally.

It's also very hard seeing her sad all the time. I do talk to her about how he is getting on - mainly on the practical front - like you say trying to sort out the things he needs from educational/health services is a nightmare. Talking about him, rather than the "services" he needs always brings tears to her eyes. She also often talks about how my children are getting on and this is quite awkward when my younger one far exceeds what hers can do. She seems very accepting of this.

The global development "tag" only seems to have been adopted about a year ago but he has been delayed in everything really - eg. sitting up eventually at 15 months, so from quite an early age it was obvious there was a problem.

Finally, jmb1964, going back to your original post, obviously you go where you feel comfortable. The other mum should ideally help her children to understand how to interact with your ds1. (Eg. in my situation I have told my children to accept that their friend's brother is different, that if he wants to touch them or show them something then to accept it (if they don't he has a tantrum). They won't go out of their way to play with him although I don't think he would particularly want to be played with anyway.) If it's always as bad as last Wednesday then perhaps a rethink is needed. I'm sure your friend doesn't think any less of you because of the fighting, but it's up to you how muich stress you can take.

Haven't gpt much time- but Davros- you did get it right from my POV. It described exactly how I feel

It's so true about the acceptance. I remember when ds1 was 2 I used to say "oh I just want to fast forward a year and see that everythings OK and he's talking" (this was pre-diagnosis although I had suspicions), then at 3 (just received diagnosis) I used to think "well now he's getting to the age when a a lot of autistic children start to talk so we'll see how the next year goes" And now at 4- as dh said recently to his mother - we're at the stage when we've stopped expecting it all to just click into place. But the nice thing is now I have my friends who are on the same position as me, and we can share our concerns (and triumphs). When ds1 was 2 I was surrounded by people who had a lot to pleased about- they were watching their children really develop (and I have that now with ds2 and it is lovely)- and we were left behind but didn't even know why or what was happening (and to confuse matters in other- very weird ways- ds1 was streets ahead).

So for now- its certainly getting easier to mix with NT's, but on a day to day basis I'm not all that ready for it. It still forms a little knot in my stomach- partly I suspect becuase I'm not entirely sure where we're going to end up. Although ds1's language is simply dreadful (just been trying to teach him the meaning of "Who says.... woof" "Who says mieow" etc doesn't get it at all ) in many other ways he doesn't have a ot of the problems that often goes with autism(for example he is pretty sociable and very well behaved!) So for us I guess I do feel that if he can develop language to a normal level then his life could be for all intents and purposes normal (although he'll always be autistic- its just with language I think a lot of his autism could be accomodated within normal life). But - if as I feel is increasingly likely, he doesn't develop language then his life is never going to be remotely language and he will remain severely disabled, and I guess at the end of day a bunch ofkids running round talking fluently, reasoning (reasoning by god- that always floors me) with their parents, asking questions, demanding attention is still really too much to handle too often. Hence no we don't socialise very often with normal families.

And that was a short post!

Haven't gpt much time- but Davros- you did get it right from my POV. It described exactly how I feel

It's so true about the acceptance. I remember when ds1 was 2 I used to say "oh I just want to fast forward a year and see that everythings OK and he's talking" (this was pre-diagnosis although I had suspicions), then at 3 (just received diagnosis) I used to think "well now he's getting to the age when a a lot of autistic children start to talk so we'll see how the next year goes" And now at 4- as dh said recently to his mother - we're at the stage when we've stopped expecting it all to just click into place. But the nice thing is now I have my friends who are on the same position as me, and we can share our concerns (and triumphs). When ds1 was 2 I was surrounded by people who had a lot to pleased about- they were watching their children really develop (and I have that now with ds2 and it is lovely)- and we were left behind but didn't even know why or what was happening (and to confuse matters in other- very weird ways- ds1 was streets ahead).

So for now- its certainly getting easier to mix with NT's, but on a day to day basis I'm not all that ready for it. It still forms a little knot in my stomach- partly I suspect becuase I'm not entirely sure where we're going to end up. Although ds1's language is simply dreadful (just been trying to teach him the meaning of "Who says.... woof" "Who says mieow" etc doesn't get it at all ) in many other ways he doesn't have a ot of the problems that often goes with autism(for example he is pretty sociable and very well behaved!) So for us I guess I do feel that if he can develop language to a normal level then his life could be for all intents and purposes normal (although he'll always be autistic- its just with language I think a lot of his autism could be accomodated within normal life). But - if as I feel is increasingly likely, he doesn't develop language then his life is never going to be remotely language and he will remain severely disabled, and I guess at the end of day a bunch ofkids running round talking fluently, reasoning (reasoning by god- that always floors me) with their parents, asking questions, demanding attention is still really too much to handle too often. Hence no we don't socialise very often with normal families.

And that was a short post!

What is the difference between hf (I assume = high functioning) and lf (which I assume is low functioning)?