Moving from London to Australia

[muminwestlnd]

Hello everyone,
We are a young family and we are thinking of moving from London to Sydney. It is a big move and I want to do the right thing by my family. My priorities are for my children to be happy in life and performing well at school. We have stable jobs, we live in a lovely area in London and my children are both happy at their school. However, I am unhappy in London, the weather takes the life out of me and we have no family or real friends we can count on. Being in Australia means we will be near my husband's family and close to childhood friends. It sounds like Australia is an obvious choice, but when I started doing my research, it may be that I won't be able to secure a private school for them (Australian registers their children to school when they are born) or able to easily move if things don't work out. Also, it seems there is a lot of bulling on Australian schools too. We have friends at elite Sydney schools that are struggling emotionally. In London, we are spoiled of choice of schools (you will always find many good private schools). Sorry, I know it may sounds snobbish but do want to keep them in a private school as it is what their are use to. We are not rich by any means as our salary goes to the children's school and a mortgage, but also moving probably means that we won't be getting as much salary in Sydney. I would love to hear your thoughts (please be kind). How likely is to get a place in a reputable school in Sydney (registering a year and a half in advance)? Is bulling common thing in Australian schools? Is it really helpful being close to family or may be a pain in real life?

Do you mind me asking what area are you in? London is soooo expensive these days, coffee is £4.70 minimum. Clothes and food are cheaper in London but eating out is so expensive. Everything else seems more expensive in London.

Do you have family outside the UK or Australia? If not being near family can be nice. Do your kids have Australian nationality? Not having it makes access to some state schools tricky I understand.

CoL wise I love this website for comparison between cities. Sydney looks better than London.
www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Australia&city1=Sydney&country2=United+Kingdom&city2=London

Wow that’s very interesting. That’s super helpful, thank you. We don’t have family in the UK, my husband is Australian and the children have Aus citizenship. We are looking at private schools as it’s what the kids are use to in the UK. However it seems people register their children at birth, so not sure if we are going to manage to get a spot.

Go to Australia. Some private schools are awful just like some in London - but you can find good ones. Or go to a public school. It is WAY different in Australia in the UK re schooling - there are far FAR less career barriers based on schooling. Julie Dillard was pm and she went to a state school in the suburbs of Adelaide.

It will be a MUCH better childhood for your kids.

I have relatives in Sydney. They say the weather is equally a problem, just the other way round.

Where in Sydney does your DH have relatives OP or more importantly, do you have any idea of which area you'd like to live? As I said in my post up-thread, there was can a vast difference in temperatures and weather between the coastal east and the western suburbs, which sit at the base of the Blue Mountains. 5'c or more difference is common, with the east being cooler and the west being both colder in winter and much hotter in summer.

As a VERY generalised thing, the closer east and towards the coast you go, the more expensive it is, but might offer a wider range of private schools. Housing will 'generally' be older (but not always), but definitely pricier. The west, has alot of newer built areas, ranging from estates built in the 80's up till new build areas/suburbs now.

I would assume the type of private school you are looking for would be in the eastern or northern suburbs, possibly some in the inner west around Burwood.

@muminwestlnd That COL website is total BS. There is no way a 1 bedroom flat in centre Sydney cost $785 per week ($3400 per month), no way. More likely $1400 per week in the CBD. And $522 a week for an outside of centre flat? Where on earth!!! unless, you really like grotty and moldy places.

And no, Levis 501 Jeans do not cost $119, more like $159 https://levis.com.au/collections/women-501-jeans

I paid $6.29 for a takeaway cappuccino last Sunday, not $5.10. At my local franchise bakery, the fresh bread loaf is $4.90 not $4.10 https://www.bakersdelight.com.au/products/white-block-loaf/?localstore=270182 . You cross the road for Mrs Jones, and you can double that.

Take that cost of living website with a pinch of salt because it does NOT reflect the reality.

The year we moved here, I bought 9 umbrellas and 1 bikini. Some years, it rains A LOT. We had several Niña years, and those years, bloody hell, I missed home! There is plenty of sunshine in the French Riviera, Spain and Italy. Or Malta if you need an English speaking country.
Or the Bahamas, Hawaii, Belize, and you are still closer to Europe.

You mention flights are not an issue because DH is Australian. Do you mean, you are going to burn your passports the second you land and never leaving Sydney again? never going on a holiday? The GBR is nice, but Greek Islands are nice too, and you don't have to worry about stingers six months a year. Play around on Virgin airlines and see how much it costs to go for a weekend anywhere. Ryanair, Vueling, EasyJet, we don't have true low cost airlines.

Don't get me wrong, Australia is gorgeous, but if weather is your driver, there are plenty of options with great quality of life that come with a lower price tag.

We did a couple of years in Sydney and ended up back in London. The cost of living in Sydney is obscene, we never found people particularly friendly (we lived in a fancier suburb where people only seemed interested in designer everything and it was very 'keeping up with the Joneses'). The big private schools there are difficult to get a place in, and the bullying is rife. There was also a huge amount of sexual assault a couple of years ago, amongst students from the boys schools toward girls from the girls schools, which was covered up.

It's a beautiful place to raise kids, but I think those glory days of Australia being the 'lucky country' are gone.

To be honest at least in my area the behaviour of the kids is the deciding factor. In state schools the kids are out of control. Stealing, swearing fighting in classes, throwing stuff at each other and the teacher. No support from the parents either. So many of the ‘wrong crowd’ a friends son ended up with a group caught shoplifting in year 7 at the local state high. I teach in a private school and send my kids there because I don’t want my kids round that behaviour. We have issues, but nothing like the state schools. Facilities would probably be better too, and academic outcomes better too, but that’s not my reasons for going.

You’ve got the wrong end of the stick. Coffee is about $6-7, same coffee here is somewhere between £3.5-4

You can buy more house in London than in Sydney. Median house price is $1.47m now but you’re realistically looking at $3-4m for a small family house in the inner/middle ring.

I get Sydney is expensive but not in comparison to London. London still way more expensive. You mentioned all other nice countries for me to move, but none of these countries I am allowed to live in. Also, I’ve mentioned moving to be close to family and friends, none of these countries I have family and friends. There is also only 4-5 weeks holidays in a year to enjoy travelling and with kids, you can only travel on school holidays which costs around £2,000 for flights only. Thank you for your input.

going to Australia is definitely what we would like to do. What are differences on Sydney schools vs UK schools in your opinion? That’s one thing holding me back. We are spoiled for choices on private schools (yes it’s very expensive and most of our income goes to the children’s education). In Syndey seems to have only a few and they are all very big. I visited a few last time I went and they have so many psychologists in each school (why?). We have friends in three different elite schools, they all had/have a bad time with bulling. Another thing that concerns me. I find Australian all very nice (I married one!) I don’t understand why there is so much bulling going on at schools over there.

Who knows why bullying is so rife. Misogyny is a huge issue, as is domestic violence. The number of women in Australia killed at the hands of men is much greater than in the U.K. Maybe the bullying and DV are symptoms of the same issue? I don't know, I'm just speculating.

One very positive thing I notice when I visit Aus is the prevalence of teens who are working at fast food places/supermarkets/newsagencies etc. Amongst the Aussie teens I know, most of them have weekend/after school jobs and working is seen as a really normal thing. It's not something I've noticed as much in London.

How many kids do you have? What would you be taking over money wise in terms of a deposit for a house? I think the poster upthread wasn't far off when they said $500k a year household income is what you'd need to be looking at to have two/three kids in private school and to afford a modest family home.

When we were there our household income was in the mid $100ks and we had a very modest existence. We rented a small two bedroom apartment in a nice-ish part of the inner west ran one very basic car. I would buy my clothes from Target or similar, we rarely had the extra for Country Road unless it was on sale. We weren't too frugal but we had a fairly simple life. This was also pre-Covid, so housing is much more expensive now.

Australia broadly has 3 types of private school

• Most prestigious and expensive: Greater Public Schools and equivalent for girls schools. Name down at birth.
• Newer faith-based schools - often Lutheran or Anglican - range from modest fees to as expensive as the GPS schools. Usually won’t need to put their name down at birth to get a place.
• Catholic schools: cheapest fees but you will need one or more of a. family ties b. name down at conception c. devoutly practising Catholic to attend the famous ones. There are some particularly prestigious Catholic schools but generally they were set up as a way to educate the Irish diaspora, with fees reflective of big families.

Australian schools are less pressured academically and the equivalent of A-levels (HSC) is a far broader education with 6 subjects. Nearly all children stay for their HSC taking a mix of academic and vocational courses.

Australian private schools play a lot more sport. It’s more inclusive and averagely-gifted children will find a spot on a lower ranked team. Children are encouraged to keep playing until they finish education. It’s a huge source of identity for private schools.

University entrance is a lot more egalitarian: very few courses have interviews and if you get the right mark, you get onto the course. Law, medicine, allied health (physiotherapy, dentistry etc) and vet science are the hardest degrees to enter.

Australians are extremely image conscious and there is a huge element of keeping up with the Joneses so if you are scraping for fees, your kids will feel a bit on the outer. Rich Australian families are very, very wealthy. I can only think this is what leads to bullying. I didn’t experience it myself at the top private girls school I attended.

I am not sure where you are getting these prices from. A cappuccino at Romolo (only of the best coffee in Sydney is $4 so it’s in many other places. In London I can give you many examples of costing £4.70 at least (at many local and city coffee shops. Where are you getting your expensive coffee from in Sydney? Where are you getting your cheap coffee in London?
Sure a house in Sydney can cost $3-4 million, but in London the same house would cost you double as much.

I am Australian and live between the two countries.

Coffee is $6-7 virtually everywhere these days.

Romolo is in no way on anyone’s list of best coffee 😂It’s a tourist trap.

Rosslyn (as an example) is £3.90 for a coffee, ditto Watch House and other similar places.

House prices really are more expensive in Sydney. I’m almost pleasantly surprised at what we can afford in London.

Thank you, that’s very helpful. We are catholic but we don’t go to church really. We are applying to the prestigious schools, so unlike to get a place? How easy it becomes on year 5 and year 7?

It’s difficult but not impossible to get into the top boys schools for Year 7 if you haven’t applied by toddler age as people like to send generations of sons to the same school.

But, it’s easier for girls schools. Our child is down at 3 schools and no one said their list was full, but she was 1 at the time.

Basically you need to start reaching out to schools and asking them whether your child has a chance of getting a place. There’s also in year movement which frees up places, but this won’t be Year 5/7 January intake.

$6-7 vs £4-5, it’s more expensive in London?! I am interested in what areas you are comparing it to :)

Inner west suburbs of Sydney.

I don’t really know what else to say. As with others on this thread, we have actual experience of the cost of living and the pitfalls of both countries. You are determined to tell us we’re all wrong. Good luck with the move, hope it works out.

If you compare Inner west with south east London…. Maybe. We all experienced an increase of living costs so it’s easy to think that, but it’s not really. We even pay VAT on school fees, and yes London school fees are also more expensive + we pay 20% tax on top of the fees. Salaries may be lower in Sydney but so it’s cost of living.

My understanding from friends who moved from London to Sydney last year is that almost EVERYTHING is more expensive there. So much so that they’re unlikely to be able to buy there and are likely to return to the UK to regain the nice lifestyle they had before they left. Fortunately they rented their London house for this reason.

Having lived in London and in Sydney things like food, health insurance, utilities, childcare, holidays are more expensive in Australia. Private school would probably be cheaper in Sydney. Housing- much of a muchness. (Sydney might be possibly more expensive if you are targeting the best suburbs but the homes would probably be larger and have pools).

As much as it’s funny reading people argue over the price of a cappuccino you should be looking at large costs like groceries, income tax, insurance, rent etc. When I moved to London my DH and I made up a spreadsheet with all the costs and our probable income so we went in with eyes wide open.

The weather is hands down better in Sydney. People are more friendly and it’s generally safer. In saying that people are even more friendly/approachable outside of Sydney. Again this is just anecdotal .

My kids are in private school (Brisbane though). School sizes are pretty much the same as a state school but the facilities a lot better. It’s a very academic school so it’s not just school fees you end up paying for. Extra curriculars are strongly encouraged and then there’s extra tutoring. We spend about $7k per year on one child for extras like tutoring, music, sport etc. Bullying is not problematic where we are (you need a good headmaster to sort that out).

For health insurance our household pays $700/month and it wasn’t like the UK where everything was covered. Generally you still have to pay out of pocket expenses even with top tier insurance. A trip to the GP is anywhere from $75-$100 and you get about $30 back from the government. Most GPs don’t bulk bill for kids anymore so you’d be paying $50 for each dr visit. When I had my baby privately I was till paying out of pocket a few thousand.

Thank you, doing a cost spreadsheet is a good idea. I understand that all prices went up and where we live feels the most expensive in the world. It is so much of a concern that this thread became a cost discussion. My original question is on the private schools situation. Which in terms of costs for us it’s much better in Australia. Food, utilities and 100x cappuccinos won’t make up for double private school fees + 20% VAT with x 3 girls at school. We will be mortgage free in Australia, and paying half of school fees. We will need to pay for healthcare but it still makes sense money wise. It was never about costs, we will be mortgage free in Australia.

I think this is one if the most realistic threads I’ve seen comparing the two countries. It talks about the nitty gritties, rather than generalisations.

I never realised bullying was such an issue - when people emigrate, all they post is pictures of people walking along a beach (we have beaches in the UK also, they’re not that rare!).

Also they cite the cost of living as a factor, forgetting this is a global problem, not just the UK.