To demand a harder hitting campaign to promote breastfeeding?

[WashwithCare]

I?m sometimes taken aback to hear mothers gave up bf-ing because it was sore, or involved feeding for hours at a time? What did they expect? What did they think newborns do? Didn?t they imagine that anything chewing on your nipple for 10 hours a day was going to nip a bit?

But then again, who can blame them? Breastfeeding for the minimum WHO recommendation of 2 years is practically unheard of. Nearly everyone will tell you it?s absolutely your decision, and fine to stop. The public info campaign is fluffy and vague about the benefits, and the baby on the follow-on formula milk box looks decidedly peachy. Lots of women are so mis-informed, they believe that formula is almost as good as breastmilk.

Is it time for something a little harder hitting? How about this for a tv ad; (scene 1) mum feeding her newborn a bottle telling her mate how hard bf-ing was. Caption: Breastfeeding Hurts. (scene 2) same mum, but now older, bald and sick, hugs toddler. Caption: So does breast cancer. FADE to caption: "Breastfeeding significantly Reduces your Life Time Risk of Breast Cancer". Followed by cheesy inspirational slogan.

YANBu - i have seen the BF ad campaign. it is crap. it doesn't even claim as much for BF as FF manafacturrs do for their product!

FF manafacturers do not have a problem advertising with enormous budgets a product that has been shown (on average) to be worse for babies and mothers. they do not do this to make mums lives better - they do it to make money.

why then does everyone think BF campaigns are about guilt-tripping mothers - is having good information about promoting guilt?

35% of mothers believe formula is as good - 6% believe it is better - and 27% of mothers don't even give their babies colostrum. - i'm guessing these are mostly women who simply don't know the truth.

though perhaps, the form you suggest isn't great - i'd be getting SMA's advertisers in and giving them a bigger budget.

and banning all advertising for formula.

unfortnately i see, everyone has taken the ttack on the appalling industry that promotes formula, as an attack on mothers: that it is not.

I haven't read this thread - just the OP, but I am feeling sick just from reading it. I posted the following on the WashWithCare is a Troll thread last night, because I couldn't find this one, but am going to post it here too, in the hopes that WWC will see it, and will realise how much her insensitivity can hurt people. I may edit a bit, to try to say things better (I was posting at midnight, so may not have been completely awake).

So - for WashWithCare:

I tried and failed to breastfeed with all three of my dses. Ds1 was jaundiced and in an incubator, and I was told to feed him at least every 3 hours, and to supplement him with bottles, so I did - my baby was in an incubator, his bilirubin was climbing not falling, and I did what the professionals told me was best for him. When we came home from hospital, I went back to fully breastfeeding, but my supply never came back, even when I used a breast pump 4+ times a day for 10 days.

I believe this failure contributed to my getting post natal depression.

With ds2 I was so determined to breastfeed - I fed on demand, and in fact he was rarely off the breast, yet he still lost over 8oz from his birthweight, and hadn't regained this by 6 weeks old. I had the health visitor coming every day or two days, telling me she wanted to see at least half an ounce or an ounce weight gain, and telling me I should supplement with bottles. When I told her I was really committed to breastfeeding this time, she told me she had to think of the best interests of my child. In the end, he was in hospital, diagnosed as failing to thrive, and looking so white and thin. I had to start supplementing him, and this was the beginning of the end of breast feeding.

Once again, I got PND.

With ds3, I mixed fed from the word 'go' - I couldn't face the trauma of trying and failing again. He was fully breastfed during the day, and had two bottles over night (one late evening and one when he woke). This meant he slept and by the morning my supply seemed good. He did ok, but if I dropped just one of the bottles, he stopped gaining weight. This is the closest I have got to succeeding with breastfeeding.

Again, PND.

With each of them, I breastfed on demand, no matter how difficult this was with other toddlers underfoot, ate a healthy diet, and generally did my best to nourish my babies, but none of them put on weight on my milk, no matter how many hours they spent on the breast. It seemed to me that I was making skim milk where other, more successful breastfeeding mothers were making Gold Top. No-one seemed to have any advice to help me, even though I was involved in the NCT, was surrounded by successfully breastfeeding mothers, talked to breastfeeding counsellors and had the Health Visitor on my doorstep almost every day.

The failure to breastfeed is one of the most horrible failures of my life, and not only contributed to my PND, but is a factor in my ongoing depression. I am well aware that I have probably robbed my dses of some IQ points and some immunities, and that's bad enough, but now, apparently, my failure to breastfeed means I am more likely to get breast cancer and leave them motherless.

Over recent years, with the help of friends, counsellors, psychotherapy and antidepressants, I have started to come to terms with my inability to breastfeed, and have tried very hard to stop seeing it as a failure on my part - and you, WashWithCare, have done a fine job making me feel like a failure all over again. Many thanks for that.

Now can you see how threads and statements such as yours can cause huge upset and sadness?

STOP feeding it!

For the love of all things holy, it's doing the classic divide and conquer thing. If you read back through the thread it's clearly displaying a classic pattern.

No More Posts, please?

"There are a few who tried their damnedest to breastfeed and couldn't. If breastfeeding is leaving you in agony and at risk of depression or with serious bonding issues, then the risks outweigh the benefits and you made a good choice to stop."

With a caveat: if walking left you in agony and at risk of depression then you should have access to appropriately skilled help to try to help you overcome your problem. Who would think of just giving you a wheelchair and saying, 'Don't keep trying as it's making you upset. Use this instead'. Lactation is a normal biological function, like walking, or conceiving a baby, that most people are capable of - though some may need help. If we can't do it then we need access to expert advice AS THE FIRST POINT OF ACTION - not the suggestion that we simply stop. Bottle feeding mums also have problems - how often do you see someone whose baby is not getting on well with formula milk (constipated/unhappy) being told that relactation is probably a better and healthier option for them and their baby, even if for some people it probably would be the answer to their difficulties?

Why is breastfeeding seen as so unimportant in our culture that women are quickly encouraged to give up in response to problems that are generally solvable

(or 'problems' that aren't actually real 'problems' but are a normal and transient part of establishing lactation that's causing the mum difficulties, perhaps because of lack of social support, or because her own lack of experience and knowledge about breastfeeding).

(BTW - I used the analogy of walking to make a point about normal biological functions. I'm not saying that not being able to walk has the equivalent impact on someone's life as to not being able breastfeed!)

Re: informing women about the link between not breastfeeding and higher rates of breast an ovarian cancer - I do feel very strongly that we ought to be given this information. I also think the link between SIDS and bottlefeeding should be flagged up. SIDS and breastcancer are among the most common causes of death for women and for babies under a year. We need to know the simple things we can do to reduce the chances of these tragedies occurring in our family.

Why stop posting on a thread that is raising an issue that is of supreme importance to all of us here - the high incidence of breast cancer in this country, and the low levels of support for new mothers who wish to breastfeed their babies?

EdgarAllenSnow, I think you're very wrong to assume that the reason more mothers don't BF (or don't BF for long) has to do with a lack of information. This is treating women as imbeciles. Women & men do many things that are not 'the ideal' (ideal according to who? anyway...) For example, lots & lots of people don't exercise at all or exercise very little. Lots of people are massively overweight. Lots of people don't eat healthily at all. Lots of people smoke. Lots of people have unprotected sex. (And to be honest, in lots of these things that I just described- and many more- the stats are very very clear, probably more clear than the bf stats where, after all, a suitable, good enough alternative exists: formula. What is the alternative for not exercising or for eating crap?)

Do you really believe it's a lack of information that makes people do these things that are (according to stats) not great for them?

StayingDavidTennantsGirl,

I'm so sorry to hear what a bad time you've had and are still having.

Just popped back to say no more faces Carmen. You have nothing to be sorry for, truly That rant of mine was a long time coming and was honestly not meant to be aimed at you.

Now I really am leaving

Gibbon

Don't agree with 'not feeding the troll' - why can't we ignore the troll and have a respectful debate?

Very good points, standandeliver and Edgar.

"EdgarAllenSnow, I think you're very wrong to assume that the reason more mothers don't BF (or don't BF for long) has to do with a lack of information. This is treating women as imbeciles."

Not at all! There are studies showing that women who don't breastfeed are much less likely to be aware of what the research says about the differences between breast and bottle feeding. I knew very little about the benefits of breastfeeding when I had my first, and nearly gave up without too much of a struggle at 4 weeks when I was having problems, having been reassured by EVERYONE around me that it wouldn't make any difference to my baby whether I breast or bottlefed.

" Women & men do many things that are not 'the ideal'"

Breastfeeding isn't an 'ideal' - it's the biologically normal thing to do.

"Do you really believe it's a lack of information that makes people do these things that are (according to stats) not great for them?"

Yes - sometimes people aren't aware. What about the many parents of overweight and obese children who fail to recognise that their child is heavier than they ought to be? If they knew what a healthy child's body shape actually looked like and what a normal BMI was then they might realise that their child didn't conform to that.

I agree it's not just down to information - it's about cultural change. You can tell people about the benefits of a healthy diet, but if it's hard for them to exercise and if if unhealthy food is cheaper and easier to get than wholesome food, then many will continue to be overweight. Similarly with breastfeeding - if people are educated on the benefits but are exposed to hospital practices that sabotage their attempts to do it, and raising their babies in a culture where bottlefeeding is considered the norm and breastfeeding is seen as akin to baby yoga - ie a nice optional 'extra' but not really important, then they will continue not to act on the information. But that doesn't mean the information isn't important and necessary!

and bf does decrease your risk of pre-menopausal breast cancer by 30% - Yet you will still hear people (not just Jordan, but regularly on Womans Hour) decrying BF whilst supporting breast cancer awareness.

though i agree the OP's ad was not the way to get this across!

why don't people get angry with FF manafacturers for pushing their product at women and encouraging them to do something they are likely to feel bad about? (90% of women that stop before 6 months regret doing so)

and, if the truth about breastfeeding makes you feel guilty - that doesn't stop it bing true, and something that should be (but isn't) well known. Should we stop being told fruit shoots are bad for kids incase it makes people feel guilty? ?

i don't normally get into these things - but the 'BF promotion makes me feel guilty so don't do it' attitude really hacks me off. FF promotion makes me angry - and is a pack of lies (implied and otherwise) - they are the ones who should be made to stop.

EAS - how about you read my post and tell me why I am supposed to be happy about such insensitive attitudes? The 'truth about breastfeeding' doesn't make me feel guilty, it makes me feel like a total failure, a useless mother whose children would have been better off without her from the word 'go'!

I agree that women need more support. DS was born in Germany and at first he wouldn't feed and was losing weight quickly. The difference, IMO, from the UK was that in Germany I was told to stay in hospital until I was ready... I stayed for 5 days, until I had had a LOT of help from the kinderzimmer staff and felt confident about feeding DS.

TBH, if I'd been in the UK and pushed out the door within 4 hours like my cousins I may well have given up, I was in serious pain, DS wasn't feeding and I felt crap about it. It was only because I was surrounded by people who could help me all day and night that I managed.

I fed DS for a full 18 months.

the op is a twat
mt friend BF but she still died from breast cancer in her early 30's
why do people talk such utter bollocks

What is 'utter bollocks?' To want to flag up that breastfeeding reduces a woman's risk of cancer?

Women who breastfeed do still sometimes get cancer of course. Nobody on this thread has argued otherwise.

But I'm sorry you lost your friend. How sad for you and all her family - as a young mum she must have been very precious to a lot of people.

the OP is clearly trying to be deliberately inflammatory, there can be no other explanation for such a moronic, insensitive and crass OP.

There are better places on here to discuss bfing etc rather than feeding this person's bizarre need to provoke outrage.

I want people to stop posting here because this is hardly the right sort of reasoned, calm debate that might help anyone think deeply about such an important issue. the whole debate (which incidentally is a very worthwhile one, how to best promote bfing so that it strikes the right line between being realistic and being aspirational yet achievable) is being muddied by other stuff. The whole tone is wrong and if I were worried about how to breastfeed or wondering where to get help this would probably scare me frankly.

So yes wholeheartedly to debate but no to provocation for provocation's sake.

WWC Sorry to disagree with you again but I wore a sling and fed DS in that. I hardly ever sat down feeding him for the reason that daytime TV is far too boring! Why would you tell mothers that it will be boring? Why not say, whilst it is a great excuse to put your feet up and relax if you don't want to do that all day there's no reason that you can't get on with other stuff and feed your LO at the same time?

so no-one should mention it for the benefit of other mothers?

Other mothers who may be deciding to FF from birth based solely on the 'information' in those crappy SMA ads?

because it makes you feel guilty- you want other mums to make decisions based on poor information, that they may come to regret?

It shouldn't make you feel guilty - you should feel angry with the crap support for BF in this country. part of that crap support is the lack of good information for mothers.

to my mind, this is like saying 'lets not promote employment schemes, incase it makes unemployed people feel bad'

unemployment does make people feel bad (in fact realy crippling bad), and for some, there's little they can do about it - but that's no reason to hide the benfits of employment to others, and help others get the information they need to get into work successfully.

i have to say, i have never seen BF advertising worded to make non-bf mums feel guilty. i have seen other ads (the governments stop smoking campaign) specifically intended to generate guilt.

i agree that as we are arguing with each other, why worry what the OP was up to?