to be eating copious amounts of Danish Blue cheese on crusty bread whilst being pregnant?

[kidcreoleandthecoconuts]

And I'm enjoying it....yum!

Fibilou My pearls are ethically sourced from hand-reared organic listeria-free shellfish in an eco-park off Mauritius so are without risk to my health.

The guidelines in France have changed now and it's no smoking/drinking/no soft cheese etc. The doctors and midwives, though, are still much more relaxed about it. When I was pg a year ago, my doctor told me that to smoke up to 5 cigarettes a day is fine( as it is not enough to impact on baby's wellbeing) and when the midwives in the hospital asked me whether I drink and I said that I steal sips of wine from DP here and there, they said " oh, no, wine is ok, we were asking whether you drink vodka!"Not unusual at all to see pg women drinking wine or having a cigarette in a restaurant here at all(obviously I don't think smoking when pg is good).

skihorse, they may still strangle you. I just don't think it's a risk that I can condone you taking

OK so I should have been clearer about the rice thing. I didn't mean to suggest that rice you cook and eat yourself straight away is a risk (assuming you've cooked it thoroughly), rather that rice that has been left lying around (such as with rice salad or sushi) is a risk. Rice served this way isn't "banned" for pregnant women but it might be best to avoid it, food poisoning being dreadful at the best of times. YorkshireRose - the fried rice thing sounds about right, since reheating rice will apparently not destroy toxins produced by the bacillus, even if it does destroy the bacillus itself. You studied microbiology though, and clearly know way more than I, so I'll shut up
kidcreole maybe smoking throughout pregnancy is not in quite the same league as eating the odd bit of mould ripened cheese. But the woman who refused all sorts of food at the Christmas meal only to go outside and have a fag (sorry I can't remember who posted that story) might not have made as odd a decision as it looks. One cigarette won't cause any major harm and one serving of mould ripened cheese is unlikely to make you ill. However it is estimated that 22% of pregnancy-related cases of listeriosis will result in the death of the baby (all shamelessly copy and pasted cribbed from the NHS website ). Basically listeriosis might be rare (18 cases annually among pregnant women in England and Wales), but the consequences are potentially catastrophic. It just isn't worth the risk.

Fibilou That's just ridiculous. I always remove them before skydiving anyway.

"By Fibilou Thu 19-Nov-09 11:11:10

So what you're saying, SUTB, is that not eating the foods they tell you not to still didn't stop you losing the baby ?"

My, you're sensitive . And no, that's not exactly what I was saying. I am saying that if you lose a baby for whatever reason, it is not going to matter to you if it wasn't your fault - you're still going to wonder if it was in some way .

Also, the OP said it wasn't occasional, she actually used the phrase "eating copious amounts" and added a "" to the end.

I'm glad she's so blooming pleased with herself...

oh Devil - that was my craving - the local sandwich did Brie and Grape baguette and I couldn't get enough of them

I scoffed eat egg mayonaise sandwiches with ds1, i seriously craved them.

ATE that should say lol

each to their own. risks yes, but its a risk driving your car or getting on a train.
have to keep things in perspective i think. these 'rules' never existed in our parents day. i'm reasonably sure my mother smoked and drank whilst pregnant and ate lots of foods we are now not meant to eat.
the mr whippy ice cream was a new one on me this time around, which i have paid no attention to.
have also had during this pg. red wine, and white, peanuts (lots of), camenbert, shellfish (cooked tho), runny eggs and probably lots of other unmentionables.
we're all adults, we make our own choices and if there are nasty consequences, then we will have to live with that for a long time!

Now in Spain, I was tested at my first ante-natal check to see whether I was immune to toxoplasmosis - according to Dr there many women are. Results came back +ve, so I didn't need to worry. Have never understood why they don't do the same thing here.

However, I was advised by my Spanish midwife not to eat vinegar under any circumstances. I didn't manage to establish whether that was just her being weird, or if it was standard advice!

I'm sure French women continue to eat every kind of cheese, Japanese women eat sushi etc. I'd like to see studies on levels of damage done by these foods in these countries - it would give proper weight to claims of danger ..... or not!

When I was pregnant 2 years ago I read the only cases of listeria in the UK in the last few years were from bagged lettuce/greens!! So the cheese thing is probably entirely incorrect & disporportionate.

What is it about pregnancy and fear people/media etc just love to big it up.

raychill its the same with anything though isnt it.

When I had ds1 weaning was done at 12 weeks or when they reached a certain weight. Fast forward to 2007 when I had ds2 and weaning was at 6 months no questions asked. Now in theory this may work but I had very hungry babies. DS1 was having baby rice in his bottles to thicken the milk from 3 weeks because he was having 9oz milk every 45 minutes.

DS2 was fine until he hit 8/9 weeks and he was suddenly very hungry and no amount of mlk was enough. So he went onto baby rice as well.

everything changes so rapidly IMO I think Mummy knows best and unless you are eating raw meat, feeding dc steak at days old etc I think as a parent you know what is right. and that goes for pregnancy as well.

I only learned about the Mr. Whippy rule at 14 weeks, midway through the hottest part of the Summer. Whoops. I don't like blue cheese personally, but I have had the odd glass of wine and some steaks while out that were not - gulp - entirely well done. Not rare, but pinkish.

A Brazilian friend of mine was appalled that I was drinking tea, as the advice there is that coffee is OK in pregnancy, but tea is bad

SUTB, you brought it up on a public forum in black and white, the point I raised was perfectly reasonable in relation to the topic being debated. If you don't like talking about it you shouldn't have brought it up

I have lost two babies fyi so I do know all about miscarriage thankyou

And no, I didn't think it was my fault. I take the view that they happened because there was something genetically wrong with them

If you contract Listeria in pg, and it causes the death of your baby, you are going to know about it. The amniotic fluid goes an interesting shade of fluorescent yellowy-green. I have seen a listeric egg - you can't miss the colour.

pate is more about the vitamin A (because it is mostly made from livers) although the uncookedness of it is an issue as well.

I have never really understood the blue cheese thing - mould doesn't cause listeriosis, Listeria monocytogenes does, a bacterial species. However, I didn't eat any during pg; nor any raw egg or any of my own favourite, brie. It might only be a tiny risk, but for me it simply wasn't worth it.

Bacillus cereus is a risk in rice that is kept warm for extended periods and then not cooked off properly - in my food science degree, we were told that Chinese rice is the biggest risk because they keep large vats of it warm, not boiling (because it would over cook of course) and then boil or fry it off as needed, usually not for long enough. I don't know whether or not the same is true in Indian restaurants but it's quite likely.

Currently 33wks on my 3rd pg and the mw didn't actually go into all the "banned" foods with me - I think she just expected me to know, although my last DC was 7 years ago and from what I'm reading here, lots has changed!!!

To the OP, no, I do not think YABU. As people say here, everything in moderation. I have already informed DH that on New Years Eve as I recover in hospital from c/s, I wish for a bottle of my favourite red to be brought in (for a glass or two), crusty bread, pate and gorgeous cheeses. mmmmmm

admittedly I did my degree a long time ago, but at the time (late 80s) the biggest risk for listeriosis apart from raw eggs actually came from cook-chill foods - i.e. ready-prepared meals in the chiller cabinet. Listeria monocytogenes is a bacterium that can grow quite happily between 4 and 10 degrees, unlike many others, so your chiller cabinet/fridge needs to be below 4 degrees in temp, just in case there is any Listeria present (via unwashed lettuce or raw listeria-infected egg for e.g.)

I've spoken to two consultants about sushi and neither of them see any problem with it. One even said that they're changing the rules about sushi - it's now considered okay. The danger was not toxoplasmosis (so not the same as raw red meat) but high mecury levels. Also, like prawns, if it's bad fish you can get horrible food poisoning. But it doesn't cross the placenta.

I'm happy to take the fairly low risk of puking. I know that sushi I've been eating comes from a very reliable source and that even if I get sick, it's unlikely to affect the baby especially since I waited until after the first trimester. The guideline from my consultant was to eat from a reliable source and to avoid tuna.

Hi,

Just wondering why fish pate is ok but meat pate isnt?
Mackerel pate is on my work Christmas lunch menu and would love to have it if I could ....

because it's mostly made of liver and therefore too high in vitamin A which could cause foetal defects. And it's raw. Fish pate isn't.