Bringing up my child vegetarian, more of a WWYD??

[girlafraid]

Would love opinions on this, another thread had me up in the night thinking about this!

DH and i have both been vegetarians for many years and (naturally to my mind) have not given DS meat to eat, he eats what we eat

We eat a balanced diet, plenty of protein and i like to think I am a fair cook

I have always been of the mind that DS can choose to eat meat himself as soon as he able to express a preference but I'm not going to cook it for him now IFYSWIM.

I've been wondering though, when does this start? Do I agree to him having meat at nursery? Or let him fill his boots at parties if he wants? Looking for some opinions, especially if you have been through this yourself

DH and I are not opposed to eating meat per se but don't feel it is healthy or environmentally responsible to eat as much meat as most westerners do. TBH I think the optimum diet would be to eat meat perhaps once a week or every other week, but I never get round to doing it!

I don't really like the idea of sending him to a party with a lunch box and don't want him to feel left out, though DH doesn't think that is so important

Thanks for reading if you got through this

[MrsFawlty]

also with Valhalla and Kitty. Have been veggie forever and my two sons are also veggie. DH is not but I cook and he's more than happy with the arrangement.

For me it is ethical, and also in a way spiritual, rather than religious, as I can't say that I follow a particular religion per se. As such I would be mortified if my kids ate meat/fish/gelatine before they truly understand what they're doing. And at 1 and 3 that's a way off yet!

[mmrred]

But then foxes and elephants aren't domesticated animals, though, are they? They are wild and thus can survive without human intervention.

In the case of, say, cows - they'd still be kept for milk, so what would happen to the male calves?

And I think we all get your point but I'm not sure anyone here is 7 and needs the emotive lecture, thanks. 'Bloodied bodyparts' - I cook my food.

[Morloth]

And we're off...

[mabh]

...and I was just about to say, thank goodness, a rational debate about vegetarianism without any shouty finger-pointing. Spoke too soon...

[Meglet]

I was a vegetarian for 19 years (for ethical reasons but lapsed last year after crazy pregnancy cravings, I eat meat/fish about once a month now so we don't have to eat different meals) and have let my toddlers eat meat and fish since they were weaned.

We have lentil lasagne, quorn dishes at home most of the time so they are used to veggie food, but sometimes I do them a meat cottage pie, roast chicken, fish fingers etc. They have meat at nursery and parties. I know it's an awful thing to say, but it makes life easier and I didn't want to bring up fussy children, I was a nightmare fussy child .

While they might never be 100% veggie they know the options and I won't make a song and dance when they eat meat. Although, God help them if they go for a KFC!

[AnnieLobeseder]

My DD1 is now 4yo, and I've raised her a veggie, as I am. However, DH isn't veggie and happily feeds her meat. I've tried not to influence her decision one way or the other, but I've made sure that when she ate meat, she realised that it was actually a bit of animal. She asked me once why I don't eat meat, and I told her that animals are my friends, and so I don't like to eat them. She thought about this, announced that cows and chickens are her friends, but pigs aren't so she wanted to eat ham. I decided I couldn't really argue with that! Now she seems to change her mind weekly about which animals are her friends and so on or off the menu, and I don't cook any meat for her (mostly cos I don't know how!). But as I see it, she's making her own choice and I respect that. At least she's thinking about it and is fully aware of what she's eating.

If she does eat meat, I try to make sure it's ethically sourced and locally produced. But at parties etc, I just let her do what she wants, especially as she's now old enough to be left at parties on her own and I don't think it's fair to ask the host parents to police what she eats.

[girlafraid]

Thanks for all the interesting points

iwouldgoouttonight - I suspect we both love The Smiths - ?

Cooking for DS has made me wonder about quorn which just seems like crap really, i don't use it at home but a lot of the nurseries use it as a subsitute which seems mad as even the manufacturers don't recommend it for under 3s

Also, I do feel sorry for pescetarians, they seem to get a hard time from everyone!

[cheeseandeyeballsarnie]

were veggie.full stop.if dc go to a party we warn the host that theyre veggie and offer to take bits along.school-they have packed lunches and on rare occasions they have school meal the veggie option is ok.the only problem weve had is nursery where apparently they have to make pizza using ham

dd and ds1 know what meat is and where its from-how its gets from animal to plate and choose to be veggie.if any of them decide to eat meat when theyre older thats fine.ds2 is 3,hes veggie because theres no meat in the house and i feed him what i consider to be a heaklthy diet.

[stressedHEmum]

Kat - we are indeed omnivores, which is the very clever arrangement that allows us choice.

Re the foxes and elephants thing; hardly a reasonable comparison. Most sheep, pigs, cows and whatever are bred for the purpose of providing food for people, be it meat or dairy. If the whole world became vegetarian then there would be nothing for farmers to gain by raising animals. The ones they had would be killed off and no more would replace them. Farmers do not keep animals for fun and cows are ill equipped to live in the wild. What is ethical about that? I have been an ethical veggie for 30 years, I didn't actually realise that some people became veggie for health reasons, but then, throughout my 30 years of not eating meat, I have known only about 6 other people who have made this choice. SO, I have thought about this quite a lot and I think that it is very short sighted to want everyone to stop consuming animal products. However from an environmental standpoint, it is very desirable that people, particularly in developed countries, should eat less meat and that the sheer numbers of livestock should be reduced.

Re the male dairy calves; unless they are used to produce rose veal, they are either slaughtered soon after birth and disposed of, or they are shipped abroad to be turned into white veal, which is the cruel kind. Rose veal gives a better deal to the calves, who have a decent, if short life and a humane slaughter, and a better deal to the farmers who can get a fair price for these calves. everyone who drinks milk should think about this.

I also think that comparing passing on morality regarding vegetarianism to that of hitting/lying/fighting/stealing or whatever is also very spurious. Decent standards of behaviour are necessary for the smooth running of society and the cohesion of social groups. Vegetarianism isn't, it is a choice to modify your own behaviour in a way that doesn't greatly affect society at large.

[piscesmoon]

I have no problems in eating animals-I was brought up in a very rural area and have always known where meat came from. If we had chicken for dinner my aunt killed one. I have always expalined to my DCs where meat comes from-right from the first farm animal board books. I think it very sad that people are so far removed from food production these days. This is shown by vegetarians who eat dairy products-most of them have no idea about milk production. If I was going to do anything I would still eat meat but stop have milk. I am not happy about a lot of the meat industry so I go to my local farm shop.

However, that isn't the point of OP. I think that while they are young you are doing the right thing but it is very important to realise they are not clones and they are free to make up their own minds. I have different views to my parents on lots of issues, we still get on really well.

'The thing is, though, I don't think that we have the right to place our morality on our children. Just as I would not force my children to accept my religious beliefs, I wouldn't force my vegetarianism on them either. '

StressedHEmum had it right with the above. You can lead by example, but strict control is counter productive IMO.

[piscesmoon]

Sorry about the mistakes-typing in haste.

[Millarkie]

Dh is vegetarian and so we brought up the children veggie until the age of 4. If your children are veggie you need to watch iron levels in food more than protein levels (although children need more different types of amino acids in their diet than adults).
At age 4 we decided that the children could decide for themselves if they wanted to try meat or fish but we still don't cook it in the house. Both of them tried meat/fish at nursery. Ds decided after one month that he wanted to remain veggie, dd is a natural carnivore
Our deal now (kids now 8 and 6) is that family meals are always veggie (bear in mind that I am not veggie so I cook and eat veggie at home), but meals outside the house, so school dinners, party food, play dates at friends houses can be meat/fish/veggie.
This has led to dd getting her chops round all sorts of meat/fish mainly from school dinners, and ds living on mainly veggie food (but he did choose to have a McDonald's burger when a friend's mum took him there ).
We try not to place too much value on whether they are veggie or not as we are aware it is likely to change over time. As it is we have healthy children who are happy to eat a wide range of veg and are quite adventurous in their food choices so it has worked for us so far.

[piscesmoon]

Very wise Millarkie. My vegan friend's son got a Saturday job in a butcher's shop when he was 16yrs. It was an act of rebellion, but as an adult he is still a meat eater. He resented being told what he should think! I am not surprised-had his parent's relaxed and let him make his own choices it might well have been different.
If you have a healthy diet most of the time the odd cheap sausage roll or McDonalds isn't going to hurt.

[HalfMumHalfZombie]

I am a veggie/piscatarian. DH is not but we do tend to have veggie meals at home. If we have meat eater guests I might get them to cook a roast but I wouldn't do it.

I just give DS what we are having at home i.e. mainly veggie stuff unless he has fish fingers or sausages if DH has got some in.

I let DS eat whatever he likes out of the house, at school / nursery.

I decided to be a veggie at age 12 and I'll let DS decide if he wants to be a veggie when he is older.

[Qally]

I think you're not "making a decision" any more than a meat eating family would. Your child gets fed, as well as possible, and a variantion of what you eat. That's the same in every responsible home in the world. I never got why people trill that it's "unfair" to give a child a veggie diet, because a meat eating adult will eat all a veggie child will, whereas the reverse is inapplicable. Why is a decision to eat meat any less a decision? It plainly isn't. Meat eating isn't the gold standard diet, with any variation lesser/weird. It's just a choice. If you tried to control what he ate when he got older (as in, teens) then I'd raise an eyebrow, because you sound like you disapprove of it rather than think it morally beyond the pale, but actually if someone thought meat eating was morally wrong, what sort of parent would they be not to try to explain why?

The only responsibility a parent has, IMO, is to feed their kid a reasonably healthy diet and try to instil reasonably healthy attitudes to food/body image. That's it. How you achieve that is nobody else's beeswax.

I eat meat, btw, and so does my ds. But I don't delude myself that my normal should be everyone else's, to.

[lanismum]

I have been veggie for 15 years now (since 15) and my 3 dont eat meat, well, ds doesnt eat anything yet but he wont eat meat, my girls are 4 and 2 and very aware what meat is, where it comes from, and why they dont eat it, nursery was no problem, quite a few of the kids were veggie, there was always a nice veggie option, she takes a packed lunch now she has moved up to reception, parties have never been a problem either, when dd1 had her party we had a whole table full for veggie/halal kids (I spoke to a muslim mum beforehand and she said that most muslims wouldnt eat meat at a party even if the host assured them it was halal, so didnt bother buying any!)..dd2 will sometimes pick up jelly sweets and if we are at a party I dont stop her, she usually spits them out anyway, dd1 wont eat them as she knows they aren't veggie.

I hope none of my kids ever eat meat, but if they decide to when they are old enough to properly decide as opposed to just shoving a sausage roll in their mouth at 2 years old, then thats fine

[lazyemma]

I think I agree with stressedHEmum most. I'm a vegetarian (for ethical reasons) and have been for most of my adult life, but it's my choice, and one I didn't think was fair to impose on my daughter. If she decides she wants to be a vegetarian when she gets older (she's 2 1/2) then great, but I won't try to make her. It has to be a decision she comes to on her own. Likewise my husband isn't vegetarian. We eat entirely veggie food maybe four nights a week, the other times I cook something that can be adapted, and at the childminders my daughter gets meat or fish too.

Apart from ethics, I also thought about the health stuff It is more than possible to thrive on a varied and nutrious vegetarian diet, that goes without saying. But it does need a bit more care and attention - combining iron-rich greens with vitamin c, for example, and having difference sources of protein rather than just cheese, not eating too many simple carbs etc. I didn't want to make the early years of trying to give my daughter good food that she also happens to love any more stressful than they had to be.

[elvislives]

I brought up all of my children vegetarian. We had problems with DS1's weight when he was a toddler and I had a consultant shout at me about "faddy diets" because he had decided DS1 was allergic to milk (he wasn't), so we made the decision to allow the children fish.

That actually made our lives much easier as the default option for children's meals out often includes fish.

DD1 at 23 is still veggie. The boys aren't. Their choice.

[Missy8c]

Still with Valhalla...and yes, they are bloodied bodyparts even if it's well cooked blood! As for pushing your ethics, beliefs on to a child, of course we all do that. If one does have a religion then it is likely that the children of the family will be taken to church (or whatever) as part of their upbringing until they are old enough to choose otherwise. I will likewise allow DD to make her own decision about meat eating when she is old enough to make an informed choice. In the interim she will be brought up as a veggie. Incidentally, recent studies have confirmed what many veggies already know - that a veggie diet is better for health...and this includes for children. I can find the link if anyone is interested. Veggies live on average 6 years longer than meat eaters ad are less likely to suffer from a whole host of health problems. I'm an ethical veggie and want DD to grow up with respect for fellow beings but even if I wasn't I'd certainly take a look at the health benefits for my children.

[Vallhala]

Thank you Missy. I'm however in a minority of one as I would still not allow my DDs (12 and 14) meat or fish. This is because I think that to kill an animal which is not suffering beyond help is terribly wrong.

I also think, for example, that it is wrong for my girls to be rude to my ex-husband (their father) although goodness knows they owe him nothing. I just don't think that bad manners are acceptable, even to him! I'm aware that I am foisting my own opinions and morals upon my children but I feel that this is my right as their mother (and in my case sole carer). Furthermore, its my job to teach them morals, and those are mine and the ones I want my children to have too, just as you have your own.

However, as much as I disagree with eating meat, its the OPs right to do what she feels is morally right in bringing up her own children. All I can reiterate is that I can't see the logic in being a part-time vegetarian, whether you chose to be so for moral or for health reasons.

[piscesmoon]

'I'm however in a minority of one as I would still not allow my DDs (12 and 14) meat or fish.'

At 12 and 14 when they are away from home?!
I think that you will be in real trouble if you try and control DCs of that age so rigidly.
You can set by example but you can only control yourself. You can want your DCs to have your morals but you can't force them.
If your DCs agree there is no problem. If they don't then they have 2 choices-open rebellion or, more likely, doing it their way in secret. I know lots of DCs whose parents have no idea that the DCs pay lip service but do something else completely.
I would be furious with my mother if she tried to control me with her own ideas and didn't allow for the fact that I have my own, which may or may not match hers.
I am all for small DCs having their diet controlled and for older DCs of vegetarians having only a veggie diet at home, but absolutely against policing their food intake and their thoughts when not at home.
DCs are not blank sheets to imprint as you wish.

[piscesmoon]

I see nothing wrong with meat eating, however if a DC expressed the wish to be a vegetarian I would respect their wishes, from the age of about 8 upwards-most certainly by 12yrs.

[Missy8c]

I think if I was in your position Valhalla, I would do the same. Having a meat eating OH makes it a bit more difficult. I will certainly never cook or buy meat or fish. I just hope that my DD grows to see the sense in my attitude to animals and makes the compassionate choice of her own accord. I never hold back in offering my opinion on animal matters as my friends and family would confirm so she will be in no doubt as to what meat is, where it came from and how it ended up on the plate. I think the issue for many people is that they still see vegetarian/veganism as an 'alternative' lifestyle rather than the appropriate moral choice so think it unfair perhaps to not allow one's children to 'enjoy' meat. Personally I can't understand that at all. Agreed that individuals are entitled to make their own choices of course but I do also think that for ethical veggies it should be all or nothing to avoid mixed messages. Health veggies are in a different camp and as their reasons are 'selfish' ones for want of a better word, they could probably manage to allow a half and half situation.

[curiositykilled]

I can see the logic in allowing children in a veggie household to try meat and fish - the logic is that they can't really make a truly informed choice about their diet if they have never eaten meat or fish can they?

[Morloth]

I don't think there is any should actually.

And there is no one "appropriate" moral choice for everyone. One persons morals are different from the next persons.