to have cancelled DD2's birthday trip to legoland

[SparklyGothKat]

It DD2's 8th birthday on saturday we were supposed to go to Legoland.

Last sat. we went to the shopping centre while waiting for DS1 to come out of the cinema, she spotted a necklace in Claires which was about £5. I said I would come back in the week and get it for her birthday, at which she started screaming and stormed off. I left her to it and took a slow walk ahead saying if she didn't come back to me and stop screaming she would lose her legoland trip. She carried on, and refused to come walk with us, and carried on sulking and screaming in a shop doorway. DH went over and picked her up and we went and sat in the car until it was time to pick up DS1. I told her that because of that behaviour she has defo lost her birthday trip.

She keeps saying she is sorry now and really wants to go, but I refuse to take her to a place that costs lots and then her do the same when we are there, because I can't buy her something. We have had this problem for a while and its draining me tbh

so AIBU??

[ruddynorah]

isn't the consequence of her actions simply that she doesn't get the necklace?

and i actually don't believe you have to follow this through. you're being stubborn, as is she. in fact, she's tried to work on it. you are remaining steadfast. she had a tantrum going on and on and on, wouldn't stop. you're doing the same thing. there's a lot to be said for setting an example around negotiation, communication, accepting apologies etc etc.

can you not talk to her, discuss the tantrum, discuss consequences etc? it's her birthday. disproportionate response imvho.

[OtterInaSkoda]

GothKat I think the punishment might be a leeeeetle bit harsh, it being a birthday trip and all. But I can imagine myself doing the same and I 100% agree with BigKnickers that a nasty shock was no bad thing.
I also agree with others that earning it back is the way to go. She needs to negotiate this with you though. In doing this you'll be setting a glowing example of pragmatism and flexibility, rather than intransigence, which imo far from meaning that you've "given in" might actually help her get over the tantrums, iyswim. Sometimes I think that digging your heels and following through with all threats is counterproductive when you're dealing with a (older) dc who is, er, digging in their heels. Not sure how clearly I've put this though - hopefully someone will understand

[OtterInaSkoda]

Ah - x-post with RuddyNorah who I think is saying the same as me - only better

[ruddynorah]

yes otter you've said it better than me

[ruddynorah]

how funny

[OtterInaSkoda]

[newspaperdelivery]

I think she probably needed more notice and time to process the choice you were giving her. iyswim? She was probably so 'in the zone' she wouldn't have been able to hear, think, decide and ask - only get more pissed off and spiral further into the hissy fit. As would we all when in a temper. We ask a lot of kids in these scenarios. To stop crying, cheer up and be quick about it [not saying that was your approach at all, just the whole counting to 3 thing that is out there].

I also think you can't go back and that she does need to see the behaviour will not win her a necklace or anything else. As do they all. So I agree maybe a period of 'earning' the treat back, and take her at half term or something.

[Othersideofthechannel]

Soupdragon, did cancelling the rock climbing trip have a long term effect on your DCs general behaviour?

[SoupDragon]

Yes, they have been beautifully behaved angels ever since

They do still say how their bad behaviour cost them their birthday party though so they certainly have a firm grasp of consequences now.

[SoupDragon]

Also, because they know I'll follow through with a "threat" they generally behave when given that warning. I guess that does mean it had an effect.

[janess404]

have the birthday party be happy life is too short

[CarGirl]

I think the punishment was harsh BUT I think YANBU because you have to follow through with what you said.

[SixtyFootDoll]

In general I am all for following through with a threat
BUT taking away a birthday treat does seem very harsh ,I feel quite sorry for your DD.
Rather than continuing to punish her I would be exploring more into why she is haveing such bad tantrums?
FWIW DS1 went through a bad tantrum stage at 8 - when he was calm we spoke about it and how he should deal with his anger and what he could do to stop himself going into a 'meltdown'.
Sorry if this post makes me sound a bit smug - I am so not a perfect parent.
I just think birthdays are a really special day and I cant imagine 'cancelling' one - my DS's would have to have done something bordering on criminal to warrant it.

[ScummyMummy]

I think it's almost always a bad idea to punish by withdrawing planned birthday/Christmas treats, personally, though I can really see how you came to say it in the heat of the moment, sparkly. I do actually wonder whether she was able to comply at that stage though, tbh, if she was so far gone that she had to be carried from the shop. Sounds like she had really lost it already by that point and perhaps couldn't think rationally. I'm not excusing her- clearly this behaviour is not on from an 8 y.o.- but I absolutely agree with otter and ruddynorah that not getting the necklace might be a more proportionate and "natural" consequence that underlines that she will not get what she wants if she misbehaves. Also, I think many children would feel mortified and really upset to have lost it so badly that they had to be picked up and carried to the car in public by a furious parent at that age. I know my 10 year olds would have felt that as a real affront to their dignity once past the pre-school stage. They would also know that they had made us terribly upset, angry and embarrassed and they would feel very sad and worried about that, I think... Is your daughter sorry? If so, I would be tempted to chat things through and move on, without following through on cancelling the trip. I tend to approach these moments something like: "Do you see now how awful your behaviour made me feel? I felt so desperate that I bellowed in a horrible scary way/threatened to burn your ds lite/cancel tv privileges for 15 years/send you to the workhouse and of course I wouldn't do those things and I'm sorry I did/said them but I was SO upset your utterly appalling behaviour that I just couldn't think straight..."

[Pikelit]

I'm a firm believer in punishments fitting the crime and think this one is a tad harsh. Not least because everyone else loses out on the day. I'm also not keen on using birthday events as the metaphorical stick to beat the child with. You punish the innocent and make martyrs of the guilty. I'm also a strong believer in the principle that birthdays shouldn't come with baggage.

Having said this, there is a point at which enough is enough and particularly if you detect a longer term pattern of bad behaviour. And certainly you always have to deliver on the threatened sanction.

It was a much smaller treat but I still recall their genuine horror when, at the door of the toy library, I turned around and took my continuously fighting, kicking, scratching, shouty dss back to the car. Warnings had been issued at regular intervals en route but had been ignored. The journey back to the car was slower than usual because I had small, remorseful children wrapping themselves around my legs promising me (as tears ran like rivers down their little cheeks) that they'd "Be Good Now, Mummy" and it was a heart-rending process all round. I didn't relent and they never behaved like animals in the car again.

I can absolutely see where the OP is coming from but hope her dd does earn the treat back.

[itsmeolord]

But the birthday isn't cancelled Sixtyfootdoll. An alternative treat is still going on, (trip to the farm) and I don't doubt there will be presents and nice things to eat as well as general "being made a fuss of" going on.

OP is neither cold hearted nor "dishing out petty mean punishments". Cannot believe that was said. How rude.

op- YANBU. I have done the same thing in the past, it worked. I think your stance is warranted as well because this is repeated bad behaviour, no other sanctions have worked and it is a good thing for children to learn that their behaviour affects others around them and can have consequences.

[Fennel]

yanbu

It may be a slight overreaction to cancel a birthday treat but it's also pretty bad behaviour for an 8yo to scream and tantrum and storm off in a shopping centre.

I would phrase it more as a consequence of bad behaviour than a draconian punishment though - "how can we possibly take you to Legoland, we can't trust you to behave there, we'll have to wait til next year when maybe you will be mature enough to behave well on trips out".

[misdee]

SGK dd2 will still be having a party of sorts. me, dd3+4 are going to be joining them at the farm, (dd1+2 are at brownie camp) picnic cake etc. we wouldnt have been going to legoland.

its not the full on theme park that she wanted, but a nice day out will be happening, and she will still be having her party iyswim. just not the big one originall planned

[Hando]

Ozzimum you are clearly a knob!

What's the point of warning a child about their bad behaviour, then telling them they will "lose" something, then offering a short period of good behaviour in order to "gain" the "lost" thing back? It totally defeats the purpose and teaches the child that they can just get back what they have lost.

YANBU OP. I'd have done exactly the same thing. Losing a day out for a long episode of brattish (sorry) behaviour and a public tantrum at the age of 8 is perfectly proportional. My dd is 5 and I expect her not to screm and cry for things, at 8 they should know better. as this is a continuing problem Op if you back down now then you will probably find she carries on behaving this way.

Also - How is not getting the necklace a punishment for a tantrum about not getting the necklace. Child learns they may as well try and have a paddy when they are told "no" as the only consequence will be to still not get it.

Don't go to Legoland.

[ruddynorah]

gosh how rude hando!

the point is that you'd be setting an example of the right behaviour, ie listening, negotiating, NOT digging heels in and NOT refusing to back down. which presumably is what you want the child to do.

[Bigboots]

Definately YANBU. Totally agree with Snitch - she will not be scarred emotionally for life, nor will she 'hate you'! She will hopefully learn a very hard lesson, namely that 8 year olds shouldn't throw tantrums when they don't get their own way AND that you don't back down.

[OtterInaSkoda]

I think if GothKat decided not to negotiate on this - and obviously ruddy and I don't know her and her dd so I'm more than happy to go with her sister's judgement (coz I listen and I don't dig my heels in ) then what fennel suggests saying sounds spot on.
Hando - your dd might not throw tantrums anymore now, but dcs have a habit of resurrecting old behaviours we thought they'd left behind, as well as developing new ones you thought you'd avoided, iyswim. I'm sure you weren't trying to sound smug, but it did come accross a little that way.
misdee - I think the farm trip sounds lovely, especially as you can all go now. Which makes me agree even more with what fennel says.

[OtterInaSkoda]

Oh oh oh! Me again!
I think it's important to explain why you can't take her to Legoland this time, again in fennel's words; "because we can't trust you to behave there". This would apply if you decided to let her earn the treat back or if you decided not to do it this year.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

YANBU in the slightest. There has been an extended period of bad behaviour, no response to 'proportionate' sanctions, and 8 is far too old for tantrums. Having given a warning you now MUST follow through.

The consequences of not following through (I can behave badly without consequences, I think I'll just keep doing that) will make life harder for you and everyone else in the family.

As to earning it back - I'm a bit ambivalent on the idea. I can see the argument that it COLD teach a positive lesson, but I wonder if it could just weaken the behaviour-consequences link. I think Fennel put it rather nicely - "we can't trust you to behave, we have to wait until you're mature enough to behave properly" sounds a good way to get it across to her.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

COULD not COLD