to think private schools having charitable status is taking the piss

[zanz1bar]

Most private schools have their charitable status as an accident of history. Does a school like Eton really deserve the same financial status as the NSPCC.

Can it really be justified by a few subsidized places.

[onagar]

So if the 'cause of bad behaviour' is 'poor parenting and lack of family values' and you only get that in state schools... what ARE you saying exactly?.

[abraid]

If you remove charitable status and fees rise you will make schools even more elitist. They will be polarised: on the one hand, Russian oligarch's and City bankers' children, and on the other, children with 100% bursaries.

Now that doesn't seem very balanced or fair to me.

[scienceteacher]

Bursaries are quite a benefit, don't you think, Omrian?

But there are many other ways to benefit the public - free use of facilities, G&T days for state school pupils, public service, funding mirror schools in deprived parts of the world, etc etc.

[Streetlight]

That's like saying 'Oh I have got a huge Bentley but once a year I let the neighbours borrow it., so that makes it fair.

[scienceteacher]

I think we are at the stage where the public benefit activities exceed the VAT that is saved. It probably would be cheaper for a school to ditch all their bursaries and other activities, and just pay the VAT on the fees. Fees wouldn't necessarily have to go up.

However, for some curious reason, the Charities Commission will not allow a charity to drop its status, so schools ahve their hands-tied in that regard.

Also, it goes against the ethos amd tradition of most schools not to have an element of public service.

[scienceteacher]

The Bentley probably had rather a lot of VAT added onto its cost - so your analogy is a very poor one.

[happywomble]

completely agree with abraid. Private schools are already out of reach for many people on good incomes who would have afforded them a generation ago.

My children are at state schools and I am happy for private schools to retain their charitable status.

People paying full school fees are paying twice for education as they pay tax too.

There are too many people with large chips on their shoulders about private education and seem under the illusion that scrapping private schools will improve our education system. I think not.

The government should either improve state schools or bring back the assisted places scheme. That way private school fees could be lower and private schools accessible to more people (as they were 20 yrs ago)

[Streetlight]

what do you mean?

Oh I forgot you are not in the business of explaining. What ahs VAT to do with it? Do you mean that buying the bentley helped support financially the poor neighbours? Give me a break!

[abraid]

The last private school in our market town closed two years ago and was bulldozed to make new houses. Since then, we have lost: tennis courts, swimming pool, music rooms and games hall.

The town as a whole really misses these facilities.

[scienceteacher]

Oh, brother...

[Streetlight]

But Abraid the counsil could have replaced those facilites, and ought to have done in fact.

[OrmIrian]

My hairdresser has a charity box on the counter for BIBIC. They also have a few members of staff involved in a charity cycle ride/fun run every year. Can they have charitable status too?

[Streetlight]

No I find your arguments all extreme;y contrived, Scienceteacher. And if making that face at me makes you feel superior please go ahead. I might be ignorant but I'm not foolish enough to think privately funded education is good for the nation.

[scienceteacher]

Actually, happy,

A lot of parents are paying three times - their child's fees, tax on a state school place, and for bursaries for other children.

With the assisted places scheme, at least the state contributed towards the education of those children who couldn't afford it themselves.

[Streetlight]

Are the bursaries not iNCLUDED in the fees then? doesn't that throw your argument a bit?

[abraid]

That would mean the council tax payers would have to pay even more council tax.

[scienceteacher]

Look at the backgrounds of those in our society in top jobs...

I think those from independent school backgrounds are over-represented.

This suggests that independent education is good for the nation.

[scienceteacher]

Depending on the nature of the school and on how well endowed they are, bursaries are either funded by fee income from the remaining pupils, alumni funding, or endowments.

[Streetlight]

I will leave others to sort you out on that one ST.

ta ta

[scienceteacher]

They were your words, Streetlight.

[zeke]

I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
Private education saves public money, and one hell of a lot of it. Maybe the naming of 'charitable status' is wrong but they should be some tax breaks.
(I am a state teacher and my son goes to state school btw).

[Streetlight]

yes but not in your context.
Oh brother

[MIFLAW]

"This is half of the trouble with state education, they teach people to be reliant on the state."

What in the name of Christ are you on about?

They're schools - they teach people a range of subjects (currently presribed by the National Curriculum) intended to prepare them for the workplace and wider society.

Also, I find it richly ironic that a poster in favour of charitable status (ie tax breaks) for private schools should be criticising anyone for being "reliant on the state".

[ABetaDad]

MIFLAW - I see you misunderstood my point. As AppleandMosesMummy says, I would not ask for all my taxes back. Only a refund of the cost saved by the state if I send my kids to private school.

I am not being the 'Big I Am. The idea of voucher systems is well established in other countries that allows parents to make real choices as wel as set up their own schools. The voucher system if it came in would be paid for out of taxes I pay. I have no objection to paying tax - some services are best provided by the state. Probably not education though if the evidence of the UK is anything to go by.

I do object to paying for my kid education privately, then paying taxes to pay for another child to be poorly educated by the state and then on top of that having the charitable status of my kids school removed so another child can have a subsidised place.

How many times do you think I should pay?

[scienceteacher]

What context did you mean, SL? Forgive me for not being able to read between the lines.