To think encouraging kids to "drink" at christmas is a bit stupid?

[jesusofutopia]

My friend told me yesterday she is intending to allow her 8 and 10 year old a bottle of lager each on christmas day she said she intends to make the bottles last all day by watering them down with lemonade to make weak shandys but even so, aibu to think this is bloody stupid?

[cory]

Thank you, disneystar. After 5 pages, you have finally made it clear which particular posters you thought were irresponsible.

As it so happens I agree with you about the woman in the OP. And I kept all alcohol well away from my toddlers too, so would agree on that count too.

But a mind-reader I am not. If you want people to understand what you mean, you need to express yourself more clearly and do less ranting and name-calling.

[cory]

And in defence of LadyEvenStar, the fact that you may laugh a little shamefacedly about an accident that was not meant to happen does not make you an irresponsible parent. And it does not mean that you will be making the same thing happen again.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

I don't know an awful lot about it, but I would imagine a whole bottle of lager is a LOT for an 8 year old..does anyone medical know?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

Cory exactly, I don't leave my glass where he can reach now....it was funny and he has had a sip since....lets be honest how small a sip can a toddler take the glass literally touched his lips and i removed it.....

[Eniddo]

I think the idea that letting children drink alcohol from a young age means you have a more 'sensible' attitude to it when you are older has been completely disproved.

Was always a stupid idea anyway. If your parents put so much emphasis on alcohol that they see it as a treat for children and something that they 'should' give it stands to reason that you are NOT growing up in a house with a 'sensible' attitude to drink.

[MadCreamLady]

I have let my toddler try my beer and wine, she never actually gets a sip as she clearly is so revolted by the smell/taste as she brings the glass to her lips that she says "not nice". Job done - the wines all mine!

[CharleeInChains]

I agree a relaxed 9but not to relaxed) approach to alcahol at a younger (not to young) age means that booze doesn't become a big thing when they hit teens. My boys are only 2 and 4 and have never taken an interest in alcahol, mainly becuase they generaly don't see us drinking but when they are older if they want a sip then i won't object as long as its in a controlled way.

It's the same as junk food, i wasn't allowed any at all as a child and teen but when i started making my own money i splurged it all on take aways and i got seriously fat becuase it was an unknown entity to me, thats why i get the kids a McDonalds ocassionaly in hope when they are old enough to feed themselves junk food wont be a seen as a big mystery to them.

[disneystar]

cory i never did rant and name call i never mentioned names so you do not have to come charging along to the defence of anyone
i merely made a point so lets leave it that please.

[Saggarmakersbottomknocker]

Agree with Enid. Anecdotally, my parents let me taste their drinks with a view to me being a sensible drinker; it didn't stop me getting legless every weekend from 14 onwards.

And this watering down of drinks, in the same vein as alcopops, if your tastes aren't mature enough to enjoy it they you're too young. Alcopops and drinks aimed specifically at young (underage) drinkers should be banned. They are the work of the devil IMO.

[MmeLindt]

There is a HUGE difference between giving a teenager a glass of watered down shandy (that tastes bitter) and giving then a Bacardi Breezer.

Beer and Shandy taste bitter, even when mixed with lemonade. Alcopops taste sweet, like Fruit Shoots. The chance of the teenager liking the taste of the alcopops is much higher, so you are encouraging them to drink.

A 275ml bottle of Breezer has 1.5 units. A lager has around 1.8 units but if you dilute that with lemonade then you have a lot less. If you give a young teenager a bottle of Bacardi Breezer you are exposing them to much more alcohol than a watered down shandy.

I have lived on the continent (Germany and now Switzerland) for 16 years, btw, and have never seen a child younger than around 14 yo being offered a drink, no matter how watered down it was.

[Saggarmakersbottomknocker]

There is obviously a difference in alcohol content. But my point is that you are watering down beer so that they like the taste. Why bother?

[littlestar26]

this is just stupid, you dont give alcoholic drinks to children full stop, and at special occasions? so they think of it as a treat instead of something you have occasionally with meals and its not a big deal.
i am from the continent and the ones you think we give alcoholic drinks to kids, are insane. the whole approach to drinking is in the culture and its been like that for years...you have a meal and you drink with it if you like and when you go out with friends you have a few drinks while socialising, the whole point of going out its to see your friends not to get drunk, actually getting completly legless is an embarrasment not funny as i have seen here...my point is that everybody is talking about drinking while kids will make a better approach to drinnking when teenagers or young adults and this is base on crap really.

[cory]

disneystar on Tue 18-Nov-08 11:28:44
"cory i never did rant and name call i never mentioned names so you do not have to come charging along to the defence of anyone"

My mistake, I thought you called Mumsnetters idiots. Must have been somebody else with the same name

[TinkerBellesMum]

Not going to read the whole thread but just wanted to point out it is legal to drink from the age of FIVE in the UK!

I plan on allowing my children to drink when they're older, we were allowed to and all grew up with healthy attitudes towards alcohol. We weren't given loads and it wasn't social drinking, we'd mainly drink with special meals. When we were older there was no mystery in alcohol that we had to go out and do it in secret. I never drink loads but when I am out drinking I have better tolerance than a lot of people I know.

I have a friend who wasn't allowed anything till her 18th birthday and she went mad, she drunk loads and has no tolerance to alcohol at all, she'd be drunk before the first sip had hit her stomach.

[nooka]

Why is thinking an alcoholic drink is special having a poor attitude to alcohol? If you drink so much that it is not special I think you have a significant problem. When I grew up my parents always had a bottle of wine for Sunday lunch, and my father always made a drink for himself and my mother when he came home from work. It was pretty clear to me that these were special drinks (in fact I was often peeved a the lack of a special drink for me and my siblings). I too like a glass of wine to go with special meals, and choose something special for celebrations. I think this is a good attitude, and one I would encourage for my children.

[TinkerBellesMum]

Cory, I agree with you about cigarettes.

I wonder how many people are aware how many people in the UK are addicts (of anything)? It's 90%! I'm glad to say I'm in the 10%, I do the test on a regular basis.

"Yes the vicar was wrong Corey. Sharing a cup with dozens of other people? Bleurggh!!"

LOL, I'm glad I never went to a church that shared wine from one cup! My grandad insisted on using non-alcoholic communion wine which is foul. Not sure which is worse that or weak Ribena!

Someone said "that's why we have drinking ages" or something like that.
From 5 - at home with the family
From 14 - in a pub with family at a meal
From 18 - you can buy your own alcohol and drink it whenever you want.

"the fact that you may laugh a little shamefacedly about an accident that was not meant to happen does not make you an irresponsible parent"

It's human nature to laugh. Tink has fallen over sometimes and when I've found out she wasn't hurt I've laughed about it, not in a nasty way, she's not my personal entertainment. I bet all kids have done something we've laughed at that could have been worse in a different situation.

(OK, so I did read the whole thread).

[nooka]

What test is that? What definition of addicted is being used I wonder? I could say that I was addicted to books, and I like a nice cup of tea, but I really don't think I have an addiction in any meaningful way (certainly not like dh who is very definitely addicted to fags). I think many of us have habits we would find it difficult to stop, and miss if we were forced to do so, but I'm not sure how many of those habits are really addictions.

[disneystar]

cory whats you problem girl
i never said mnetters were all idiots just the ones who give the children alcohol
drop it ok
just cos your a irresponsible mom dont hide behind it
youve been having digs at me everytime you post
your a damn idiot thats what so go give your lo,s a drink yeah get them used to the taste why not after all mom does it
show them an example
oh sorry you cant

[TinkerBellesMum]

The police do the addiction test to new recruits, start on Monday by Wednesday they're killing each other - obviously not literally between a bunch of trainee coppers! As a St John Cadet we had a talk from one of our Adult Division about drugs (he was the Police School Drugs Liaison Officer) and he was where I first heard about levels of addiction and how to see if you are. I was the only Cadet who made a week with no drugs.

Being addicted to books is not an addiction that will leave you killing people if you don't get them for two days

[TinkerBellesMum]

disneystar, if those who give alcohol to children are idiots then so's the law because it's not against the law to give alcohol to children.

[nooka]

Disneystar, what on earth are you on? Cory said she would "let my 8yo and 12yo have a sip of wine from my glass on occasion" I fail to see what is irresponsible about that. I do the same as do many other perfectly responsible parents, and I think this is about the norm for many families both in the UK and on the continent. As it is the approach many of our parents took, and we are still mostly occasional wine drinkers I fail to see anything terrible going on. It is legal and certainly not dangerous. Giving an eight year old a bottle of beer to drink on their own (no matter how lemonaded down) on the other hand is I think irresponsible.

Tink, I am amazed at the 90% addiction level. I am guessing this must include cigarettes (that's about 25% or so now?) and alcohol dependancy as well as the chemical stuff (prescription and illegal). It just makes me wonder about my former workplaces, where I am only aware of a few drinkers and smokers. I worked in the NHS and we had talks by our DAT team, so I know a little (not a lot). Did it include coffee? I know a lot of people who do seem addicted to coffee, but I am guessing not enough to make them kill people without it.

[cory]

Disneystar, I am not having a go. I am trying to argue a case without calling anyone an idiot or irresponsible, simply on the merits of the case. Arguing a different position from somebody else is not the same as having a go at that person.

In my personal opinion, the law is right not to allow parents to give any alcohol to a child under 5. I did not give alcohol to my children at that age either. I have no quarrel with this law.

For older children, I do not think a tiny sip of wine is going to make them so hooked on the taste of alcohol that they have to become addicted. Taking communion as a young teenager did not have that effect on me and having the occasional sip of wine did not have that effect on dh.

On the other hand, I do not think allowing sips is necessarily going to save a person from ever becoming addicted either.

IME the factors that decide if a person becomes addicted are far more wide ranging than this fairly minor matter. They include:

whether the family is stable and supportive or not

whether the parents are themselves addicted or able to control their drinking

whether a child grows up with good self esteem or feels a constant lack of control

whether a child has suffered other damage (such as abuse) that alcohol can take their attention away from or whether they are able to feel happy when sober

whether parents are able to teach good ways of problem solving which do not involve drinking for comfort

whether other influences in a young person's life (friends, partner, workplace) encourage addiction or a controlled attitude towards life

In my own case, all the above tended towards the positive, which I suspect is the reason why the communion wine did me no harm.

People do not become addicts simply because they like the taste- lots of us like the taste and are not addicted.