To think encouraging kids to "drink" at christmas is a bit stupid?

[jesusofutopia]

My friend told me yesterday she is intending to allow her 8 and 10 year old a bottle of lager each on christmas day she said she intends to make the bottles last all day by watering them down with lemonade to make weak shandys but even so, aibu to think this is bloody stupid?

[SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore]

Oooh snowballs I havent had a snowball since I was about 10

If dd1 asks she gets a very very very weak shandy from dh's lager or a sip of my wine but she is not actively encouraged and doesn't have a whole bottle though she is only 5. I don't think alcohol should be a complete no no though or it will be all the more appealing when they are older.

[VictorianSqualor]

A bottle of lager each sounds too much to me.
Especially as it sounds like she has been planning it.
DD is 8 and is allowed a touch of champagne at new year or a small spritzer at xmas but it's not planned. I don't sit and allocate her alcohol, however if she asks if she can have some then I'll allow her some very watered down but even then she would be allowed a drink with her meal, not to be drinking all day!

[JodieO]

I agree with Rhubarb but I go a bit further. None of mine will have alcohol for a long time. As far as I'm concerned it's for adults, just like 18 rated films are and I wouldn't show a clip of one of those to a younger child just so they didn't think it was a "treat" and want it more.

I've never bought into the rationalisation that letting them try it will make it less taboo, look at some European countries where they allow children to drink as a more normal thing; they have some of the highest alcoholism rates so it doesn't seem to make much difference with regards to that.

I just don't think it's suitable for young children to consume alcohol as their bodies are immature and it will affect them far differently to an adult even in small quantities, also they can't exactly study the effects properly as it would be unethical.

If other people want to let their childen drink then fine but not me. I think it's good to teach them that some things are just for adults ie alcohol, driving, watching 18 rated films, sex etc.

[mayorquimby]

"You know people always say prohibition didn't work in the US but apparently rates of alcoholism went right down."

but would that not have had more to do with the fact that it was driven underground rather than the actual rates going down? i mean to admit to being an alcoholic would admit to being breaking the law iyswim?kind of like saying the percentage of people who are homosexuals has risen in recent years due to more accepting social attitudes/legislation.so it's not like there were less homosexuals when it was outlawed etc just that they had to keep it hidden. i'm not well informed on the subject at all so would be grateful of clarification if you know the facts

[Rhubarb]

Oh wow! You think you know Mumsnet and then you find out that they all feed their kids alcohol to go with the organic couscous!

I wonder what the reaction would have been if you had posted that your friend was planning to give them a fruit shoot each!

Giving kids a sip of wine or beer is fine. Perhaps even a very tiny amount of champers.

But at the tender age of 8 and 9 - a whole bottle of lager is still a whole bottle of lager no matter how you water it down! It's not even a classy drink! Would you give them a quick puff of your cigarette whilst you're at it?

It's far too much alcohol for a child to consume. I thought I was fairly liberal giving my kids a sip of my wine and thinking of giving dd a drop of champers this Chrimbo, but it appears I'm actually very conservative!
Lager is not for kids. Not even in a nice shandy way. FGS, give them something half decent!

[mammamic]

Hi

IMHO it's down to sensible attitude to alcohol, as with everything else. I spent part of my childhood in Italy and at lunch there was always wine or very light lager as well as water. We were always allowed either watered down wine and shandy from about the age of 3 or 4.

More often than not, we preferred water or (home made) lemonade. if and when we wanted alcohol, it was not 'promoted' as a treat, but rather as just part of meal times. I have 3 siblings. 2 of us are practically teetotal, by bro drinks socially and one of my sisters has had an alcohol problem but that was related to substance abuse.

Our DD who is 4 has had watered down alcohol on the rare occassions that we've had it at home but doesn't like it!

[idobelieveinghosts]

Mine used to have a sip of whatever there was at christmas..but they always hated it though.

DP drinks Guiness (sp!)..they have all tasted that and then went running into the kitchen for water to take the horrid taste away....all except one of the boys..who was then 6...he loved the taste

What worries me more is the amount of parents that take their teenagers to the cash & carry on a saturday to get the teengagers stash of alcohol for that night when they are drinking out and about! A truly alarming amount do it in my dd year.

[ManIFeelLikeAWoman]

Dittany

Alcoholics Anonymous was founded by alcoholics who had lived through both the Depression and prohibition - it was then they realised that such piffling obstacles as joblessness and the illegality and subsequent bootlegging of their "drug of choice" were not going to stop them drinking and that maybe they needed a different solution than relying on society to control it for them.

[NorkyButNice]

We were allowed a tiny egg-cup full of Buck's Fizz on Xmas Day as kids (maybe from 8 upwards).

I wouldn't give my 10 year old a bottle of lager though

[JPS08]

This is a tough one for me - both parents are alcoholics. I know for fact there are far more alcoholics out there than you think - and while some mention the continent having the right idea introducing early, you really don't know what happens to those early starters (my moms friends wouldn't have a clue she is an alcoholic and my father hid it very well for years and years). I don't agree with introducing it to kids, but I'm thinking of mine at 4 and 2 years old. Give them egg-nog, that is a christmas drink and special - or create lemonade with non-alcohol grenadine. As someone mentioned earlier - why not hand them a fag as well.

[44christmaspuddingsinarow]

dittany - did it really go down, or was it hiden? As it was banned I would possibly think that a disease connected directly with a banned substance would be hiden other wise you would be in trouble and inprisoned - just a thought....

[claireyBANG]

I think Disneystars comments were directed at me actually.

I would like to clarify

I DO NOT think it is funny that dd picked up my drink and drank half of it. The and I used were meant to convey that I was horrified that it had happened but I appreciate that emoticons do often portray a more lighthearted sentiment.

I DO NOT offer dd alcohol, nor do I think unlimited sips are ok. Others in the family had a more relaxed attitude to it ON ONE OCCASION ONLY .I myself refused to let her have any of mine as I said earlier, but let it go when she was sipping from the other glasses as I truly didn't think that very small sips (ie the liquid touching her lips) would do her any harm.

She DOES NOT have sips of alcohol on a regular basis, nor every few weeks or months or whatever - it has happened that once.

My earlier post was not meant to sound as though I think it is ok to give toddlers and young children alcohol, I was trying to say that letting them have small sips can also be dangerous as was shown when dd then thought it was ok to drink from my glass.

FWIW if we have alcohol while she is still up (not often but it does happen, I don't hide the fact that I enjoy a glass of wine from her)and she asks for it then I tell her she can't have wine but she can have a drink for her, usually water or juice in a plastic wine glass. I don't pretend to her that she is drinking wine because I worry that it could lead to her thinking she can drink wine for real. She is happy enough with what she gets anyway.

When she is older I will have no problem allowing her to taste a small amount but I do think a bottle of lager for an 8 year old is too much. And as I said to dh-look at the size of her compared to you and then tell me it is just a few sips and won't affect her.

I am not an idiot either btw!

[TinkerBellesMum]

Caffeine gives me heartburn so I don't take much, but even when I was younger I didn't have that much. I've never smoked, rarely drink, never done illegal drugs and I'm not on any medication (apart from half an Aspirin) so I can easily go a week without any addictive drugs (can't stop the Aspirin, but that's not addictive). I'm not boring honest! I can keep up with the lads when I go out and only stop when my bladder gets the better of me. But I'm not doing that too often and haven't done it for a few years now, it doesn't go so well with anticoagulation.

[TheLadyEvenstar]

CORY get out of my flat lmao stop peeking on me in the mornings lol...

No seriously I cannot function without at least 2 coffees when I wake up.

[cory]

I have actually seen somebody suffering real withdrawal symptoms when deprived of coffee for a morning. It was scary.

[nooka]

Ah coffee would explain it. My dh drinks an absolute ton. I wouldn't be surprised to know he was addicted. I do think some people are more easily addicted than others though - I have problems getting into habits myself so I find it hard to understand the urge.

[TinkerBellesMum]

The 90% does include every type of drug, an amazingly high % of people are addicted to caffeine and it does have quite an effect on the mood when withdrawing.

The law might be idiotic, but it's still there and people who are acting within the law are still law abiding. If you don't like the law there are things you can do about it.

[nooka]

I think the awareness of the damage that alcohol can do is far too low in the UK. The proportion of car accidents, domestic abuse and fights where alcohol is a factor is deeply worrying. However for most people having a glass of wine once a week or so is a positive experience, with some possible health benefits. Sharing that experience with your older children is not particularly wrong. I agree with cory on the reasons why people turn to alcohol. It is not in itself highly addictive, more the patterns of behaviour that people fall into for a variety of reasons.

Disneystar just because your opinion may be different from other people does not make them idiots, or you right. I'm not sure why you are trying to pick a fight with cory.

[cory]

Disneystar, I am not having a go. I am trying to argue a case without calling anyone an idiot or irresponsible, simply on the merits of the case. Arguing a different position from somebody else is not the same as having a go at that person.

In my personal opinion, the law is right not to allow parents to give any alcohol to a child under 5. I did not give alcohol to my children at that age either. I have no quarrel with this law.

For older children, I do not think a tiny sip of wine is going to make them so hooked on the taste of alcohol that they have to become addicted. Taking communion as a young teenager did not have that effect on me and having the occasional sip of wine did not have that effect on dh.

On the other hand, I do not think allowing sips is necessarily going to save a person from ever becoming addicted either.

IME the factors that decide if a person becomes addicted are far more wide ranging than this fairly minor matter. They include:

whether the family is stable and supportive or not

whether the parents are themselves addicted or able to control their drinking

whether a child grows up with good self esteem or feels a constant lack of control

whether a child has suffered other damage (such as abuse) that alcohol can take their attention away from or whether they are able to feel happy when sober

whether parents are able to teach good ways of problem solving which do not involve drinking for comfort

whether other influences in a young person's life (friends, partner, workplace) encourage addiction or a controlled attitude towards life

In my own case, all the above tended towards the positive, which I suspect is the reason why the communion wine did me no harm.

People do not become addicts simply because they like the taste- lots of us like the taste and are not addicted.

[nooka]

Disneystar, what on earth are you on? Cory said she would "let my 8yo and 12yo have a sip of wine from my glass on occasion" I fail to see what is irresponsible about that. I do the same as do many other perfectly responsible parents, and I think this is about the norm for many families both in the UK and on the continent. As it is the approach many of our parents took, and we are still mostly occasional wine drinkers I fail to see anything terrible going on. It is legal and certainly not dangerous. Giving an eight year old a bottle of beer to drink on their own (no matter how lemonaded down) on the other hand is I think irresponsible.

Tink, I am amazed at the 90% addiction level. I am guessing this must include cigarettes (that's about 25% or so now?) and alcohol dependancy as well as the chemical stuff (prescription and illegal). It just makes me wonder about my former workplaces, where I am only aware of a few drinkers and smokers. I worked in the NHS and we had talks by our DAT team, so I know a little (not a lot). Did it include coffee? I know a lot of people who do seem addicted to coffee, but I am guessing not enough to make them kill people without it.

[TinkerBellesMum]

disneystar, if those who give alcohol to children are idiots then so's the law because it's not against the law to give alcohol to children.

[TinkerBellesMum]

The police do the addiction test to new recruits, start on Monday by Wednesday they're killing each other - obviously not literally between a bunch of trainee coppers! As a St John Cadet we had a talk from one of our Adult Division about drugs (he was the Police School Drugs Liaison Officer) and he was where I first heard about levels of addiction and how to see if you are. I was the only Cadet who made a week with no drugs.

Being addicted to books is not an addiction that will leave you killing people if you don't get them for two days