to tell my 5 year old that the much bigger child who kicked him in the stomach will be going to borstal in a few years?

[ThatBigGermanPrison]

And that he, Ds1, will be going to lovely university, and not naughty boy prison becausehe is a good boy?

The older, thank-god-I-did-not-see-him-as-I-would-have-flayed-him- boy didn't hear this. Ds1 did, and was much comforted by this idea, that horrible bullies get a comeuppance and good boys go to a lovely place where everyone has fun and learns.... was this a bad idea? In hindsight, it's a bit close to gloating, but he was sobbing and holding his tummy.

[DANCESwithLordPottingtonSmythe]

12 is WAY to old for softplay! OP - I know why you are angry, I would have been too but as everyone has said, you don't know what happened. I just HATE the labelling of children as 'good' and 'bad' at a young age. He might be having a terrible year, be being abused (he may just be a little sh*t) but it just sounds so superior to say he's going to prison and if you are good you are going to university (ooh and no pressure on your son who may change his mind and want to lead a dance troup or photograph whales but at the back of his mind will know that his parents think the ultimate achievement is going to university...)

[DANCESwithLordPottingtonSmythe]

Oh and I agree with Fabio about the wording for a 5yr old (the other kid is having a hard time won't cut the mustard) but I just wouldn't choose the prison v. university route.

[MsDemeanor]

If a child is deliberately nasty to my kids, I tell them that next time we see the mean children we'll put them in the bin. Right in the bin and put the lid on. Makes them giggle a lot.
However, I would tend to assume that any kicks received while playing Kung Fu Panda Pirate Power Rangers were a/accidental b/a natural consequence of playing an inherently violent game and would probably, being quite a mean mummy sometimes, I would point this out to the child. I think they need to realise that if they are playing kicking games it is very likely that someone will get hurt, and you can't just blame someone else. I might wait to say this until after the initial sobbing subsided but I would say it.

[FabioFridgeFluffFrenzy]

TBGP did not announce to the world and sundry that kicking boy is a shit of the sloppiest and most offensive order, and will be jailed for life immediately because of being a total bastard.

She said something to comfort her young child, in a context he would understand, and to make him feel better.

[ThatBigGermanPrison]

Ds1 thinks the ultimate fun is at university.

Actually the university thing came about when we were talking about different jobs, and all the ones I suggested sounded like fun (building, cheffing), he said sounded like hard work. So we got talking about doctors and pilots etc - which he liked the idea of. But the fact is, you have to go to university for stuff like that. Which is where he got the idea that you do fun stuff at university.

[MsDemeanor]

I do think that if the kids are playing a kicking game, and one gets kicked, it's actually more of a life lesson to give him a cuddle, say 'ooh, I bet that hurt' and then point out that in a kicking game people get kicked, rather than depicting him as the victim of a vicious random assault by a future hoodie! It's a very good opportunity to gently point out that people who play kicking games sometimes get kicked.

[ThatBigGermanPrison]

Hmm, didn't know about the Kung Fu Panda until The Little Princess told me about it. I did say to him that I would prefer it if he didn't play that game any more because that's how people get hurt.

[FabioFridgeFluffFrenzy]

How does that comfort a five year old though?

I agree that kicking games = someone getting kicked, but getting kicked is how you learn that lesson, not by Mummy pointing out the bleeding obvious when you want to hear that you're a nice boy and horrid kicking boy is a poo poo head who probably likes girls.

[FabioFridgeFluffFrenzy]

(last post to MsDemeanor)

[ThatBigGermanPrison]

Well, I don't really think that balled in pain from a kick to the abdomen is an ideal position for a small child to be learning life lessons - although he has certainly learned to stay away from bigger boys, which considering he goes into the big playground this year is not a bad lesson to learn.

He knows Kung Fu Panda is a bad idea, I've had words about it before. But it's very very hard to be the child to stand up and say "My Mum doesn't like me playing Kung Fu Panda, lets play Tag" when you're only 5 and showing off to bigger boys.

[VictorianSqualor]

I always tell my children that they have two paths in life, success/happiness or prison.

People that hit others once grown go to prison, its a fact. I suppose I could get them to sit with DP and read his police and criminal law books so they know exactly what you have to do to go to jail but at the moment, fighting and stealing is enough.

YANBU.

[MsDemeanor]

You give your son a cuddle, comfort him for the pain and give him a jellytot or something. Then you gently point out that in kicking games people get hurt (which is clearly not 'bleeding obvious' to a five year old otherwise they wouldn't play it and wouldn't be so shocked when they get kicked). I don't think it is necessary to teach your kid that they are just a victim, that anyone who accidentally hurts them is a bad child who should be ostracised and you certainly don't have to teach them to be a snob who at the age of 5 divides the word into naice children who go to university and ghastly oiks who go to borstal. That's really a bad lesson, and will not serve him well in future. If he ends up everytime he gets hurt in a boisterous game saying 'Waaah, my mum says I'm going to university and you are going to go to borstal' will not make him the most popular kid in school, you know.

[VictorianSqualor]

MsD, I do agree with your point but didn't the OP say she didn't know about the kicking games when she said this?

Alls he knew was her DS had been kicked in the stomach by another boy and was crying. If he had said 'Mummy we were playing kung-fu panda and I got kicked then I'm sure she would have said that if you play those games you can get hurt, but at the time it seemed like a nasty big boy (Yes, the sort that will likely end up in prison, I know too many grown adults that have been inside only to see their children behave like this and want to thwack them on the head and tell them what they are doing) who had kicked her precious little boy.

[OrmIrian]

Agree with dances.

Nothing like reinforcing sterotypes. Who knows where both the boys will be in 10 yrs time? Let's hope that the 'borstal boy' will be doing well and will have confounded your expectations for him. Fingers crossed eh?

Life isn't black and white. Thanks god.

What was wrong with cuddling him, rubbing his tummy better and telling him to keep away from the other boy. And btw Kung Fu does tend to involve kicking.

And I might also add that IME the world is full of lovely friendly well-meaning children. Most of them in fact.

[MsDemeanor]

OK, not sure of the context! Mind you, I tend to assume any injuries received in the hell of softplay are accidental unless I see otherwise. And my advice to the kids is to avoid that person in future and be careful where you put your arms and legs.
Of course you can effectively comfort a child for an injury without blaming another kid or painting your kid as the victim of a horrid oik. Mind you, when ds was very little I used to tell off the pavement for banging his knees - but that's because it made him laugh! It works a treat by the way.

[ThatBigGermanPrison]

Er, what stereotypes? I didn't even see the child, how on earth could I have stereotyped him?
i have been unfair in presuming that all violent teenagers go to Borstal perhaps, when clearly they don't. but it's an option.

And of course I have stereotyped my own child as nice, who doesn't?

By the way, pretending that I think only 'naice' boys go to university isn't very effective when we are not a 'naice' family.

For the millionth time, I didn't know about the Kung Fuing until The Little Princess came and said it. Does anyone assume their children are lying until proven otherwise? I don't. Ds1 came and told me a very very big boy kicked him in the stomach on purpose for no reason. I believed him to the point of offering the comfort I saw as appropriate to the injury.

[ThatBigGermanPrison]

Have realised I have turned into the threadstarter I always take the piss out of, who asks if they are being unreasonable and then insists they aren't. I'm bowing out now, feel free to hang me.

[sitdownpleasegeorge]

I yelled "leave him alone, anyone who wants to can go down the slide !" to a boy who was ringleading a ganging up against a crying ds1(5) when we were on holiday recently. It was in the far corner of a softplay area and the boy was trying to control access to the fun wiggly enclosed slide from the top level to the bottom. He didn't realise I was ds1's mum as I was in there with ds2 who needs a bit of help but it was pure chance that I saw what was going on.

He looked shocked and then smiled at me and blustered something about what he was doing and I just reiterated that it wasn't fair to other children who wanted to go down the slide and I was sure he didn't want other children to be crying and unhappy on their holiday. I finished off by complimenting him on his cool t-shirt and he smiled again and disappeared down the slide, I would guess he was the same age as ds1 or maye a bit older.

Half an hour later he smiled and said goodbye to me as he and his family left the restaurant area attached to the softplay and later that week we saw him at the swimming pool where he was jumping the queue for the childrens waterslide and going down before the green safety light came on until he looked round and noticed me watching and I got a wave and a smile and after that he was a bit more careful with the other children.

His parents were not watching him at either the softplay or the swimming pool and I don't think he is a "bad'un" destined for borstal but I do think that he needed more parental supervision and with it his behaviour could be modified to prevent it possibly escalating to the point where he gets into serious trouble.

Parents wouldn't have to fight their children's battles or issue potentially smug platitudes such as "he'll end up in naughty boys school and you won't" if other parents would bloody well discipline their own kids and watch them to make sure they didn't harm others instead of putting their own leisure time needs first.

[SixSpotBurnet]

Very good post, sitdownpleasegeorge.

[snowleopard]

GermanPrison, as a bullied child it meant a huge amount to me that one day I would escape those bastards and leave them behind through doing well academically. Not a bad message to give your child IMO. I've been back to my hometown and seen the people who used to beat me up, sat in the pub and been very glad I got away from them. OK, as a society we do need to help violent kids with behaviour problems, but that's not your 5yo's job. Right now he has to focus on his own needs and dealing with other kids while retaining his confidence and interest in education - so, so important especially for boys as they tend to fall back at secondary school age.

Though I suppose you might want to avoid saying things that he might repeat and get himself more aggro.

[VictorianSqualor]

Thing is sitdownpleasegeorge, if that child never encounters another person like you but is left to push other children aroudn, then he will ultimately learn that is how you deal with things, putting him at a much higher chance of ending up in prison.

It's not judging children, but judging certain ways or 'parenting' that teach children no real life skills and the wrong way to behave that makes people think they will end up in prison. Children are pretty much a blank canvas and the difference between one child that ends up in prison and another not can often be attributed to the parents, if a child is already kicking others in the stomach (not in general game play, but nastily - which the OP had no reason to think about at that point) then it's not unreasonable to think their parents aren't teaching them right from wrong and aren't likely to suddenly decide one day that they need to deal with it.(Even if they do, turning a person's life around is much harder than teaching them the right way in the beginning)

[Ripeberry]

Fiofio, yes that is an interesting article.
In our pre-school there was a group of 4 friends who were obsessed with playing with guns.
The playleaders were very against it and had banned all toy guns, pictures and even toy soldiers!
But those boys were very resoursefull and just made guns out of lego!
Which i thought was good imagination, and if they did not have lego, they used anything they could find, even bits of grass!

[UniversallyChallenged]

good post sitdown - I always step in too and am always prepared for a mum who cant be bothered to get up when her child needs to be disciplined to be able to get up when some one else does the job for her and have a go at me. I find most children are very respectful when they are told their behaviour is unacceptable and as you say, they often change when they see you watching them thereafter. To me that means they inherently know they shouldnt be behaving that way.

To the op no yanbu - if it made your LO feel better then it was the right thing to do at the time.

My ragtag 4 year old can sometimes be a bit of a kicker and I have twice been told by other mums he has been naughty so have been at both ends!