To think saving on Universal Credit is extremely difficult?

[FirmGreyMember]

It feels like Universal Credit doesn’t really leave much room for saving once basic living costs are covered. I know in theory people say to put even small amounts aside but in practice it seems very difficult when most of the money goes on essentials.

AIBU to think there’s very little opportunity to build savings on UC?

I think again the biggest issue is why in-work income support should even be needed. I'm not talking about part time work, or any exceptions.

When I started work back in the early 80's, a basic job could be enough to support a family of 4. Roll on to today, it's barely enough to support one person without help from somewhere. Start thinking about your own household bills, ignoring for the moment housing cost as it's so different between mortgaged and rented. Typical food for the week, utilities, essential travel, essential clothing as you can't go to work naked or in completely knackered clothing or shoes. Other household essentials like phone, internet, cleaning products, council tax, insurances.

Then add in those housing costs. If you have children, a 3 bed house isn't a massive luxury. There are very few places in the UK, especially where there's half decent infrastructure, where you can rent for under £1000 - £2000 per month. On £30k pa assuming standard 5% contributions to pension, you're taking home £2k per month. If both parents work to increase income, then feed in child care costs

THIS is why people need to claim in-work benefits.

And don't suggest getting a better paid job! Just think of the screams if you try to call public services and there's a 5 hour wait on hold because nobody wants to do the low paid job. Care workers, who look after the elderly and disabled, are on minimum or close to it. Street cleaners, shop workers, baristas, hotel & bar workers, Amazon warehouse operatives, road menders, all of these are on lower wages and we can't do without them.

How much? Raw figure of how much you give from your wages each month to people who aren't working? You can even include pensioners in that, I don't mind.

You have two disabled children though, as you say. That makes life that bit harder, does it not, and will account for the extra money you get. Most people receiving UC will not be in the same position as you.

As I stated upthread this is a myth that benefits bashers use to beat claimants. They perpetuate this lie that people work less hours so that they get more UC.

But they totally negate to mention that the lost UC will be a much smaller amount than the extra wages they have earned, so they will ALWAYS be financially better off working more hours. UC was literally designed so that this would be the case.

A third are. Not a vast majority.

Universal credits is plenty high enough to allow people to save. But there's no incentive to because as soon as saved 6k they start penalising you, and by 16k you're completely ineligible for UC. They want everyone to live hand to mouth.

My DS’s gf has recently lost her job. She gets £760 a month UC, which covers her rent and council tax and NOTHING else. How is that ‘plenty enough to live on’?

Well it's not. And my controversial view is than if people want to see rates of disability benefit claims come down (and apparently that's quite a trendy obsession right now!) the government needs to very significantly raise UC rates. Living on below subsistence rates for any length of time has a ruinous effect on mental and physical health but we don't appear to do joined up thinking in our divided country.

Universal credit has a ‘help to save” scheme. Open an account, you put £50 in each month and they put £50 in. If you don’t take any out they also give bonuses.

£50 a month? Some people have a problem having £5 left at the end of the month!

Well I am yes. With two children, a mortgage and on my own.

That’s the max you can put in a month. And you only qualify if you’re working.

As well as not being savings accounts, benefits should be taxed. As workers income is taxed. It's only fair.

This is or has changed I think.

I'm on disability benefits. I certainly don't get the same money as a family working 2.5 full time jobs. Nowhere near it. I probably get under someone working full time at NMW - and a proportion of that is rent

(Also going to say that my disability benefits will be ending shortly as I was given them for a set period of time).

No they shouldnt. How do you tax someone on basic Uc getting just over 400 pounds a month

It's only some people who qualify for that

Is it? How does a single person running a home on just over 400 pounds a month manage to save? I couldn't do it

As always, first post nails it.

However this doesn't square with the expectation of people who aren't claiming benefits that everyone should always "have some savings".

You can't have it both ways.

Obviously taxation is on a scale of income. Eg. an 'income' of under 13k or so pays no tax.

Just going to say this. When I was on basic Uc for a long time I did not get energy support. I presume you mean warm home discount. At that time you had to have health issues or a young child. I have only got it over the last few years because I have health issues and despite being on lwcra and adp at the moment I still don't automatically qualify. I have to apply (I'm in Scotland).

Yes I got a proportion of council tax paid but I still had outgoings such as energy bills. Food. Phone bill (you have to have a phone when you are on UC).

Transport was one of the biggest issues - it's pretty expensive here

As far as I'm aware subsided childcare isn't means tested. I'm aware that Uc pay a proportion of childcare(think its 85 per cent) for people on benefits but other families are entitled to free hours as well.

Some people on benefits pay full council tax. It's area dependant

“Savings” is subjective. Anyone on here will assume OP expects to be able to save £500+ a month, or whatever amount they save.

It’s not unreasonable for a person on UC to need to save £10 a week so they can buy their child a new pair of shoes because their current pair are too small. They wouldn’t have enough money to buy them in one week, so they’ve got no option but to save for them. Does the taxpayer truly begrudge a child a pair of comfortable shoes, or do they think they should run round barefoot like they did in the 19th century?

"Obviously taxation is on a scale of income. Eg. an 'income' of under 13k or so pays no tax."

So you want to reduce the support for profoundly disabled people.

Just going to say that some people on UC do end up with some "savings" by default because they have to battle to get disability benefits and even if they don't - there's a waiting period before your benefits are awarded

I got lcwra after going to tribunal - which was a year after my initial application for it. There was a waiting period so I didn't get a years money backdated - but I got some. It's actually disregarded for a year (it wasn't over 6k or anywhere near it)

I got lwcra after a triple leg fracture -I was initially denied it and was told that I would be fit to work in three months (the tribunal disagreed with that decision).

I certainly wasn't living the high life when I was on basic UC and saving was completely impossible

UC threads always seem to end up the same way. People assuming that people get it very easy and that we sit and scrounge off taxpayers.

There's another thread on the boards right now and I have been told several times by one person that there's really nothing wrong with me and that people on Pip or adp are scroungers living the high life (I suffer from ptsd depression and anxiety due to some life events that happened six years ago).

I've certainly noticed a different tone from people towards me since I got disability benefits (I'm talking about people online). We are all scroungers who live the high life. Go on foreign holidays and have regular beauty treatments. (not sure how I could manage that given that it took me months to be able to walk properly again after the fracture).

In times where I did work and was on UC it certainly wasn't to try and claim more UC. It was because I was working part time jobs and couldn't get consistent better hours

Wow!!