AIBU? DH’s drinking

[Oreoqueen87]

DH and I are at an impasse about his drinking and I really need some perspective.

DH has 1-3 beers every day without fail. I’m not too worried about the amount, it’s not excessive but it’s the how he’s drinking and the background.

For context, we don’t live in the UK, culturally it’s similar in many ways but there are way less pubs and alcohol is less present in everyday life. We are later in life parents, I’m mid forties and DH is 50.

My issue with DH’s drinking is that it’s always in front of our 7 year old boy, who idolises his dad. He will often crack open a beer at 3pm on the weekends, and have two or three as he’s pottering about the garden with DS.

When he gets home from work he’ll have opened a beer by 5pm, and have a couple of beers before DS goes to bed.

There have been a couple of weekend afternoons when DS’s friends have called in (with their parents!) and he’s been having a beer. That would be unusual here and I felt a bit uncomfortable.

He gets very defensive if I try broach it gently with him and says I’m being judgemental. His dad is a hardcore alcoholic, his brother was an alcoholic who died an alcohol related death two years ago and his entire family are heavy drinkers. I feel like he just doesn’t see how unhealthy it is for DS to see alcohol as part of his daily routine every single day. That dads always having a beer while he watches tv with him of an evening. He thinks I’m super controlling and uptight.

I genuinely would not care if he drank after DS went to bed at 7pm. Or it was a couple of times a week, a in the evening the other times. But he just won’t hear it at all.

AIBU?

YANBU, it sounds like your DH is also an alcoholic (they don't have to be falling down drunk and downing a bottle of vodka daily)!

He's normalising every day alcohol consumption in front of your son, who is probably already more predisposed to addictive tendencies given the family background.

I would find this really worrying too OP.

I left a marriage in similar circumstances. My ex husband also had to drink every day and I couldn’t bear it. I desperately needed to have space and time in my marriage which didn’t involve alcohol and he couldn’t give that to me.

He is probably dependent, even if its under control (for now). If he’s not willing to confront the problem you need to take control of the situation.

You can’t rely on him to do it. Alcoholics aren’t in control of the relationship with alcohol and they can’t prioritise family over it. So don’t allow alcohol to be made more important in your marriage than you and your child.

YANBU, unfortunately you can't force him though. He has to want to change.

Thank you @44pumplaneand @PygmyOwl.

I am concerned. He’s never out of control, but it’s relentless. That he doesn’t see it as an issue when other people are uncomfortable (me, school parents, my family) is a big red flag, as is the fact that it’s not social drinking. I like a wine over a catch up with mates, but the point is the socialising. The point for him is the drinking.

My biggest worry is that the courts known are very ‘pro contact’ in this country. He would have to be seriously neglecting DS for them to remove contact - and as soon as he improves for a couple of months it will be reinstated. I know if leave he will get worse and DS will be constantly exposed to it. He’s also incredibly slack with things like unsupervised internet access, which I currently have to manage. He will 100% go for 50:50, he thinks he’s a great dad.

Added to this, DS is undergoing assessment for ADHD and is quite young/naive for his age.

I am wondering if I am better to get my ducks in a row and wait until DS is a bit older, and understand more about the situation. I’m going to have to tread very carefully.

@thepeopleversusworkdid you have children in the mix and was it an issue them having contact?

could he be stressed because of work pressures or something ? if so and you can find out why is he stressed perhaos at trouble shared will help and you may have solutions hes not thought of.

sounds like hes thirsty. could you get cold water (fizzy or still) he likes - in beer sized bottles - and have refrigerated ready for drinking?

if he had some in between the beers to quench his thirst he might fill himself up with that and not have so much beer.

i’d focus on telling him youre not being judgy youre being health conscious. we need to be showing our child that drinking water is good for us and he will copy you. you dont want him reaching for beer to copy that do you! no i thought not, so dont be a bad example be a good one. and it’s cheaper and no calories, unlike beer, so it’ll be better for you too akd you can also enjoy a beer in between.

failing that i’d suggest low alcohol beer.

if he refuses to try and change i’d soon be off if he keeps drinking. i’ve been with two alcoholics. it’s a nightmare. they didn’t change no matter what, and my life became shit because of it. the expense, mess, drunken mistakes and anger. hell no. id never ever live with one again. sorry op

Thanks for your reply.

He’s not thirsty. Tbh I don’t really want him sitting around drinking mids with DS either, he’s never out of control and DS just sees it all as beer and his dad drinking.

He has the usual work stress but I do all the mental load etc plus a stressful job - I really cannot take any more stress off him in the hope he reins it in.

I’m sorry you’ve done that twice, that’s a lot to go through

@Oreoqueen87

^did you have children in the mix and was it an issue them having contact?^

We have a daughter who was four at the time (now 15). I was "lucky" in certain respects (although it didn't seem like that at the time) in that my ex was too chaotic and selfish to care that much about contact. So my bet was that he wouldn't seriously fight me on this. Which turned out to be correct.

I can't really comment on the contact point.

I would strongly advise that if you're going to leave you do it sooner rather than later. My daughter was four when I asked him to leave and by and large she adapted well to the split. She now has a good relationship with him but doesn't really remember him living with us and doesn't remember the chaos and the drinking. I'm fairly sure it would have been significantly difficult if I'd left it five years.

One of two things will happen if you stay in the situation as it stands. Either the drinking will get worse, exposing your son to witnessing their dad in a downward spiral, or it will stay the same and this type of drinking will be normalised for your son and he's more likely to hold similar attitudes when he's older. Your husband will not change unless he wants to, and right now he doesn't want to. You could suggest couples counselling? Does he know you have considered leaving?

Concerning that you don't think drinking every single day is excessive. It really is. I'd tell him he's got to stop or I'm leaving.

I obviously think drinking every day is excessive. I said in my OP that I don’t think the amount is excessive, it’s the fact it’s every day and often in the daytime. 1-3 beers in one sitting is hardly a session, if he did that one or two evenings a week I would have no problem

Yes, drinking daily is a concern, especially when it turns into a habit/need.

E.g. how would he truly feel if there were no beers in the house, the shops were closed and you had been preoccupied as a family all day?

I think you need to sit down and voice your concerns around the fact that alcoholism runs in his family, and he is already genetically at risk of developing this too.

It always starts as "one or two", then months/years later when that no longer helps, it will increase further.

Suggest to him to cut down to a more manageable level of drinking - I think they usually suggest having at least 3-4 non drinking days per week, preferably, in a row.

He could have a couple on Friday and Saturday, have a break Sunday-Tuesday and have one or two midweek on a Wednesday?

At least he has a break in between, but if he does just genuinely enjoy a drink, at least he has time at the weekend and mid week to enjoy them?

I would also put in a rule that any drinking is to happen once your child goes to bed (unless it's social like a BBQ or gathering etc)

Writing these suggestions as someone who used to have a drinking problem and has cut right down. I used to have about 5 bottles of wine per week, but I now only have 1 bottle on a Friday/Saturday night.

Are you in the US perchance? There will be different cultural views re: drinking. It almost sounds as you're more worried about what others think than what you truly think?

If I thought DH wouldn’t go for contact, or would have limited contact, I’d have gone already. My biggest fear is having to leave DS in that situation. DH loves DS but as time has gone on I’ve seen that he doesn’t see a problem with his drinking and it would likely escalate. Like he knows I wouldn’t tolerate him sitting around drinking all afternoon with DS at home but I suspect he’d do it if left to his own devices.

Thabk you for replying, I’m glad you got out.

I’m not in the US, I lived there briefly so understand what you mean re drinking culture there. I lived in the UK for a decade so get there is a big difference.

I’m not so much worried about what others think of me, it’s more that it shines a light on how abnormal and unhealthy it is. We don't know the school parents so well that they’d comment, but I can they are a bit bemused by it. We never encounter the same at theirs. My sister has commented and she’s far from uptight.

Well done on cutting back so much.

This thread is useful as it’s really helping me crystallise the situation. He’s tried no alcohol days, mid beers etc, it never lasts. There still are some days he doesn’t drink but it’s infrequent.

I think I need to sit him down and implement the rules you have mentioned until DS is a bit less vulnerable. The thought of having to leave him in that situation 50% of the time fills me with dread.

How does he talk about his father and brother's drinking, OP? Has he ever read anything about alcoholism, would he read anything you send him (from one of the organisations out there for support) or would he just get defensive?

Edited to add: if you could find information talking about the normalisation of drinking to children and the effects on them, and also the link between ADHD and addictive behaviour/alcohol dependency, would he sit up and listen, given its about your son?

You're not in the UK. What is 'a beer' in this context? If it's a tiny bottle of weak lager then the health risk is slight while the messaging to your son isn't great but hardly extreme. If they're litres of strong Belgian then his health is in danger and it's an awful example to set.

Either way it's reasonable to ask him to be mindful of the optics for your child. Any behaviours that set children on an unhealthy path are to be avoided, that includes things like smoking and overeating.

If this is the only reason for leaving your husband it looks like overreaction, especially as you aspire to no contact. The harm of seeing a couple of after work beers seems far less than the harm of being deprived of his father. You are also in your son's life and have agency to shape his development, we can't isolate our children from negative examples but we can educate them.

Your DH is drinking between approximately 35 and 56 units of alcohol per week, depending on the size of the bottle/can and the strength of the beer. The NHS guidelines are 14 units per week. He's an alcoholic whether he can see it or not.

Would get legal advice and plan to separate sooner rather than later.

You’d be U to seek for your ex to have low contact with DS but not U to seek something like every other weekend and one weekday evening.

DS is 7 so can communicate verbally, make phone calls, get help.

It’s not a given that your ex’s drinking would worsen should you break up, but it could do.

my friend went through this but her H drank more, frequently very drunk. She waited until DC was 5 so DC could communicate when alone with their dad. Court in the UK didn’t regard the drinking to be of concern regarding overnights every other weekend. Her ex then didn’t seek much time with DC post break up, his drinking escalated and that was his priority. DC saw him one schoolnight each week and one weekend day every other weekend.

It’s similar to the UK. It’s not the amount but the frequency and that it is always in front of DS. And also that he regularly drinks in situations where clearly no one else is/wants to.

I appreciate your post as it’s really balanced. I talk to DS a lot, and we’ve talked briefly about how his uncle drank too much alcohol and got sick. I am
very aware that a divorce would shatter DS and his world, especially as he struggles with anxiety related to his ADHD. We’d also have to move, and his friendship group are all in walking distance. He finds friendships tricky, so that would have a huge impact on him.

The other problems in our relationship are mostly related to alcohol. He has inflammatory arthritis in his hands, alcohol makes it worse. He’s then in pain and irritable and impatient, which we all have to live with, Not always but regularly. Similarly, he gets anxiety and expects a lot of support, but doesn’t see that drinking makes it worse. And while he does equal housework and does literally zero mental load, despite all my attempts.

Between 1-3 beers a day is well over the recommended units of alcohol per week and the fact he drinks daily is an issue especially as it seems it’s the first thing he does when he gets home

you need to acknowledge that fact not say you don’t have a problem with the units he drinks daily, it is a problem

if he won’t do anything about it, and alcoholism runs in his family then you either accept that, and no doubt he will start to drink more, or you do something about it, including telling him you will leave if he doesn’t seek help

Yep, I think it may be a case where sitting and having a serious discussion may hopefully make those plans stick in the future.

In the past, I had my partner sit me down and say he was concerned about how much I was drinking, and also highlighted how much it could impact my son, which shocked me into making necessary changes.

If it is still not received, it really needs to be tough love. A blanket ban on alcohol in the house (only allowed for social events) and if he cant respect that, then he will need to move elsewhere until he can.

Honestly, if drinking is not an "issue" or a problem, he shouldn't have any hang ups about doing this - if he does, there is his answer.

He completely recognises that they are alcoholics and it destroyed their lives. I think that is the problem - he thinks he’s not that bad compared to them, but the bar couldn’t be any lower!

I would like to believe he’d do it for DS, but I think he’d put his head in the sand re the risks. He is very sceptical that DS has ADHD despite DS being almost through the diagnostic process and I think it’s because he doesn’t want to adjust the way he parents.

To clarify, I don’t have a problem with the amount of units he drinks in one session. I don’t think 3 bottles of beer is a huge amount in one go )we don’t drink pints here). I have a problem with the frequency - if he drank 2-3 beers twice a week when DS was in bed I wouldn’t bat an eyelid.,

You mention your DS is being assessed for ADHD. I would do a little research on alcoholism/addiction in people with ADHD - and question whether your DH (and his family) might also have ADHD. This could underly their attraction to - and developing dependence upon - alcohol. According to a source on this people with ADHD often rely on alcohol ‘to manage symptoms like chronic understimulation, high anxiety, restlessness, and intense emotions. Alcohol can act as a temporary, fast-acting fix that boosts dopamine and calms the "internal noise" of an ADHD brain, easing social discomfort’. This could be the case if your DH is undiagnosed and spends all day social masking only to come home and drink as part of his recalibration process.

At the moment 3 bottles a day is around 35units a week, so well above the healthy recommendations for men in the UK (may be different where you are) but if DH is possibly self-medicating against undiagnosed ADHD, then seeking assessment and medicated pathways may enable him to find other strategies to address the underlying feelings/sensations that have him reaching for a cold one the moment he walks through the door.