to think the expectations of grandfathers vs grandmothers are miles apart?

[Blaainey]

There are so many threads about women complaining their DM/MIL is not gra not doing childcare, not helping enough, not being “hands on” enough. Cue outrage. Cue dissecting her personality, her priorities, her supposed selfishness.
But where are the grandfathers in all this?

They seem to exist in the background and no one expects anything. If a grandfather takes a child to the park once a month he’s basically up for sainthood. Meanwhile a grandmother can be doing regular childcare and still get criticised for not doing more or not doing it in the “right” way. She is criticised for not helping especially if she dared have help herself.

Even in real life I see it. Grandmothers are assumed to be available, involved, emotionally invested, practically useful. Grandfathers are optional extras. Nice if they engage, but no big deal if they don’t.

It is not just about practical help, it’s the emotional expectation too. Grandmothers are meant to remember birthdays, organise things, build relationships. Grandfathers can just turn up.

I never see a thread where someone is complaining the grandfather refuses to help with childcare.

I know it’s not all grandfathers and there are amazing, involved ones out there – I KNOW. But as a general pattern, the bar just seems so much lower for them.
AIBU to think it’s a bit unfair that one grandparent is scrutinised

Fuck me. This again 10 in a fortnight? Just don’t look after your grandkids.

We could equally talk about the unfair expectations of the elderly on daughters to step up and provide care compared to sons.

Nah people object to those to. It’s boring as shit.

Women rely much more on other women for support because men abuse women and children at such a high rate that even if it is so utterly deep down most women are extremely skeptical of men looking after children.

They cannot imprison the vast majority of men who are looking at child porn because the courts are flooded with them and the conviction for rapes could be as little as 1-2% of the overall number of rapes and that prevalence is high, add it together with DV and child abuse and I think that is why the pressure falls disproportionately to women. Also it is almost always men known to women and children who harm them.

Look at the bear vs strange man in the woods question.

I look after my grandsons 2 days a week. My son in laws dad also looks after them 2 days a week. His wife is still working. So your premise isnt my reality

Because granny did the childcare in terms of feeding, nappies etc. They know the ropes.
Grandad is more likely to have been involved with playtime. But would not be familiar with nappies or feeding arrangements. They didn’t do it first time around. Asking them to learn would be unkind.
Work around the home was in the past more often in households clearly defined. Men cut the grass, dealt with anything around the house that needed maintaining including the car. Women did cookery and washing and ironing. And most of the childcare.

So nobody really expects Grandad to do nappies. He hasn’t a clue where to begin.
That is why. Ask him to mow the lawn and you might be in luck.

As the decades go by, this may change. As you will have Grandad who will have done nappies etc.

Hence saying:

I know it’s not all grandfathers and there are amazing, involved ones out there – I KNOW.

Grandad is more likely to have been involved with playtime. But would not be familiar with nappies or feeding arrangements. They didn’t do it first time around. Asking them to learn would be unkind.

Lets be kind and get granny to do it. We must be kind to grandfathers not grandmothers because they are used to changing shitty nappies anyway

So men are ok enough to breed with but that is where their services end?

That is a massive leap.

Yes, abuse and violence are real issues. No one is denying that. But going from that to basically saying it makes sense that grandfathers aren’t expected to do much doesn’t really add up.

Most harm to children comes from a small minority of people, not men as a whole. If you start applying worst case statistics to entire groups, you end up justifying treating loads of normal people with suspicion, which most of us don’t actually do in real life.

In real life, women do trust men with children all the time. Fathers, brothers, uncles, teachers, doctors. Kids aren’t being kept away from men as a rule. So it’s not this deep, universal thing where women are too wary to let men be involved. It’s more that men often aren’t expected to be as involved in the first place.

That’s the bit that gets overlooked. Expectations shape everything.

Grandmothers are assumed to be hands on, reliable, emotionally involved, so they get judged against that. Grandfathers aren’t held to the same standard, so they don’t get criticised in the same way.

The whole bear in the woods thing is about a hypothetical stranger in a dangerous situation. It doesn’t translate to how families operate day to day with people they know and trust.

It doesn't explain why one grandparent gets held to a really high bar and the other can just drift along.

Read through threads here about women questioning grandfather’s behaviour with their children, male nursery workers and you will find people are far, far more skeptical of men looking after children than you are.

Only seen one grandfather behaviour thread. Quite a few male nursery workers.

If women are so worried about men, why have a baby with them in the first place?

Ok you’ve only seen one thread, there are more.

I don’t know why these women have babies with men but if you want to find out reasons for anything you have to ask people and then listen to what they say not respond all argumentatively and defensively at them and not accept other reasons because it conflicts with what you believe.

There are many reasons for many things people do because people are complex.

Can be engaged without doing childcare

Biologically, it's fucking impossible without TBH.
Unless you're using a sperm donor - which frankly a lot of men are. 🤷🏻‍♀️