To ask if SEN children in mainstream should always do all 8+ GCSEs?

[HolyCowrie]

My DC is in a provision unit in a mainstream school. SEN, autism, learning difficulties. EHCP. Unlikely to pass GCSEs or equivilents. I've been told they still have to take full suite of 8+ GCSEs.

Ahead of (possibly) fighting this, I just wondered if anyone can tell me what their child in a similar position is expected to do about GCSEs? What does their timetable look like? Is it reduced? Does it contain extra tutition in maths or English?

YABU = SEN children in mainstream should sit the same amount of GCSEs as everyone else
YANBU = SEN children should have a reduced timetable of some kind

If your child is unlikely to pass GCSEs I don’t think they should be forced to take them. Surely functional skills would be a better use of
time?

I'm currently looking at SEN provision for my son, but he's only just due to start school. The specialist schools I've been to don't aim for GCSEs, of course it would be pointless and yet another thing to make disabled kids conform then fail at. What the hell are they thinking? Please please, fight this.

There is just no need for 8 GCSEs for any child, my son has SEN and in the end couldn't cope in school, he only did 6 which was enough for college for A Levels and he's now in his second year at university.

If your son won't pass GCSEs at all they should be looking at functional skills. You should fight it, all that stress for no reason.

Surely it should be judged on a by child/pupil basis rather than a blanket policy.

My DD was in mainstream with some shared TA resource on her EHCP. She should have been in an ASD unit but things didn’t go according to plan. Her school allowed her to drop a subject in Y10 to use that time to do homework and get support with maths in the hub. She passed everything at 4 or above with an average of grade 5. Could have done better with less exam anxiety and demand avoidance but we were relieved. Her mainstream secondary were very good with her. You are absolutely not unreasonable and very few people need 8 GCSEs.

My DS is Year 10 in a school where 10/11 GCSEs is the norm. However, his condition has deteriorated a lot since Year 9 & needs increased, largely due to epilepsy & it has been decided he should be at SEN school. He can't get a place though. At the start of Year 10 he was doing 9 subjects & not coping. Now that has been cut right back to English language, maths, science & drama GCSEs, French & Spanish FCSE. The Senco has said we can decide near the time whether he sits exams at all. In the place of lessons cut out, he has extra drama (favourite subject), extra maths & English. Lessons often on own or in small group in SEN block. Normal school hours.

I work in the SEN dept of a mainstream secondary & we have young people who do not take all of their GCSE’s. They will be put in for study periods or tutoring during the classes that they are not doing.

The school my dc go to has a provision unit attached. The whole year group are put into groups. A higher achievers group (expected to do minimum of 9 gcses, with a language, humanity and tripple science), achievers (expected to do a combination of 8 gcses /btecs) or bespoke group and this means they can do anything from just English and maths to the full 8 gcses. School shouldn't be setting dc up to fail.

I think that's to broad SEN covers a very wide range of abilities
And whilst some children with SEN can easily manage 8+ GCSE subjects
Some will struggle to pass any
It should be dependent on the individual, s needs imo.

At my kids secondary it depended on what was in the echp. If it was full time 1 to 1 they were able to drop subjects and do additional work with the 1 to 1 supervision if it's a 2 to 1 it's not so easy as theirs not always enough staff to supervisor the children who want to drop the subjects. A lot of schools have sen units now but their limited on space in them. Speak to the sen and the school

DC don’t have to take 8 GCSEs. It isn’t essential. It sound like it wouldn’t be in your DC’s best interest to.

Units in mainstream schools run differently. Some expect DC to sit a full complement of GCSEs. Others sit a reduced number, or none, as standard. Some have more flexibility than others.

You could look to get wording in the EHCP for a more tailored curriculum with a reduced number of GCSEs &/or other qualifications (not necessarily functional skills, there are others too. FS don’t work for all. That way, it doesn’t matter if the school isn’t supportive of sitting fewer.

When you say not pass, do you mean not get a level 2 pass (i.e. grade 4+) or do you mean not pass at all (i.e. won’t get level 1 passes, grades 1-3, either)? Understanding that will help when you approach the school.

My eldest has done this and dropped one GCSE so far (SEN with EHCP in mainstream). I suspect another one or even two will go soon too

I think they are likely to get levels 1-3 in them.

The provision leader has approached the head about functional skills and has been told no. I don't think anyone at the school does FS. The head also told them he must do all 8 GCSEs. I'm told 'he'll probably surprise you', but he's been years behind throughout education.

It feels like a closed door. I don't want to make bad blood and I am not sure how to fight them or what to ask for. He's currently in Y9 so I don't know whether to wait for the wheels to fall off, or to make a fuss ahead of time.

I would not wait until the wheels fall off. That could risk the whole placement breaking down. When is DS’s next AR? I would use that, or an early review if the AR this year has already taken place, to push for amendments to the EHCP that mean a reduced number of qualifications and alternative qualifications must be provided. In the meantime, I would look at alternative qualifications to find ones that will work for DS.

Don’t wait til the wheels fall off, that means your child having a truly awful time in school which may take a lot of recovery time. There’s no kindness in setting him up to fail. I’d rather have the fight now than end up having the fight while also trying to support a burnt out child.

This is dont understand what there is to gain by overwhelming a child and forcing them to fail.

Why not take a reduced amount of gcses or equivalent functional skills qualifications that they can pass. So get English and maths and then what subjects does your child enjoy? What would support their future life,,development and transition to adulthood. Far better to study and enjoy a smaller amount of exams that they can hopefully achieve (to a level appropriate to them) in than force them to take 8 gcses only for them to fail them all AND likely damage their mental health and well being.

This is usually a school level decision ie there isn’t usually a local authority or academy trust level policy.

i worked at a school with a Sen unit and our usual policy was to double enter for the gcse and for entry level however that was for students who might not even get a grade 1 at GCSE. If school think he will get between 1-3 then they are likely to resist dropping lots.

schools make different decisions on extra maths and English. Some have large numbers doing reduced GCSEs and a very big additional tuition group others prefer to do it in other ways - 1:1, tutor time groups etc,

Please dont wait for it all to go wrong, this will cause so much harm. What does his EHCP say? When was he last assessed by an educational Psychologist? If it was ages ago its worth asking for reassessment of needs perhaps .

Definitely argue that he needs qualifications that will support his future. Do a bit if research on what you think might suit, ie functional skills . Gcses in favourite subjects maybe if you feel he could but there are lots of options. Does his school only offer gcses?

ARPs are all different. In ours it's completely bespoke to the child. There was a form that had to be filled in for the main school, which I padded out with fictitious GCSEs for the timetabling, but by agreement with the ARP DC never went to a single lesson of them and spent those timetable slots in the unit doing life skills or homework.

Incidentally sciences can be sat as single awards including at foundation level, eg he could be entered for foundation level chemistry and not physics or biol at all. Whether school can accommodate that might be tricky - we did it by coming out of class lessons and getting individual tutoring in the ARP.

Yes, that's a good point. I'm already seeing signs that he's stressed.

Next AR isn't for several months. I've no idea how to push for such massive changes to his EHCP if the school won't support or offer them.

He thinks he's just going to do normal school followed by A-levels followed by university as that's what he's watched his older siblings do. I don't think he understands that this is (currently) out of reach for him.

My son has a EHCP, he was told he did not have to sot all of them and one of the GCSEs could be practical (adnan i think) and also there is always the option to go for the foundation paper instead of the higher paper.
you shouldnt have to fight for this, it is pretty standard and can be discussed with sendco

@HolyCowrie I'm afraid too many schools have this blanket policy and it does no one any favours.
My son is now 21 and at uni. He had ASD and had a very poor start to life, he was in special school when I adopted him at age 8.
We were very lucky it seems to have a school which focused on the individual.
My son did 5 GCSEs and 3 BTECs. The BTECs took a lot of pressure off as they were mostly course work and were done and dusted before GCSE exams started.
We are some years on and things change so I wouldn't want to offer advice other than don't wait for the wheels to fall off. That will put more stress on to your son.
I did stress to my son that he shouldn't look at what others are doing or achieving and to just do the best he could.
We looked ahead to college courses and found that he would have lots of options with just Maths and English. He was confident about Maths so we put most effort into English, including extra tuition outside school.
Having just seen your last post. My son went to college and did a BTEC - as I say now at uni. Things got much better for him when he could do the things he was good at - Maths and Science and not writing essays and trying to analyse Shakespeare
Good luck

His EHCP was written in primary and his last edpsych was year 5 or 6. I've been told it's impossible to see the edpysch now so that won't happen. So there's nothing in the EHCP about KS4 or GCSE workload.

All of this was handled for us by the head of the RP. There's nothing in DS's EHCP about reduced workload either but it was just baked in that the workload should be set to help him succeed, not fail. It flexed quite a lot through the 2 years too, according to what he could cope with.

Also dropping one GCSE (often MFL) in favour of extra maths and English is already baked in as a mainstream option in a lot of schools, not just for SEN but for anyone who is going to have work hard for their maths and English passes.

Obvs you may have already had these conversations but I would try to get a meeting with the RP lead and see what they can do. I don't know what his strengths are but eg removing Eng Lit and replacing with extra homework time or something could be transformative. The rules absolutely should be different for RP children, the extra staff are there for them so they should be able to come out of class when needed. And the evidence that they need this extra provision has already been provided, which is how they got the RP place.

That is not true. Ipsea have a template letters if he has not been seen or asked by an EP since yr5? Its imperative he is seen and they have an up to date assessment to inform what his needs are and how they should be met moving forward.

Get the template letters from ipsea, edit, send it to school senci, head, ehco coordinator and head of send AND the director of childrens services at your local authority. He is absolutely entitled to an up today assessment of need.