Part time workers and bank holidays. Fair or unfair?

[crunchiesnuts]

I know that it’s completely legal and up to the employer, but I’m just curious about what people think about this.

I’m part of a small team (there are 7 of us in total). Everyone works full time, 5 days a week, except for one person who is part time, working 3 days a week. This person works Monday-Wednesday. When there’s a bank holiday, they switch their days and work from Tuesday to Thursday instead. Like I said, I know this is all above board and our manager is fine with it, but the rest of the team feels it’s a bit unfair since they don’t have a say and have to use their annual leave regardless.

I’m kind of torn on it. I know this person asked to work Mondays when she took the job, so it feels a bit like having the best of both worlds, but I also get not wanting to burn through almost all your annual leave just for the bank holidays. Recently, this person has mentioned how she doesn’t complain about the fact that the rest of us get more holidays and better pay (which is a bit confusing since we work more hours, so naturally, we would), but it’s stirred up some tension in the office, and I guess, some people think she’s rubbing it in their face. I’m just interested in hearing what others think. Even though it’s legal, do you see it as fair or unfair?

I guess it depends how the bank hols allowance is calculated too. NHS I get 33 days plus Bank Hols (this year there are 10) pro rate to my 22.5 hours. My working pattern includes a Monday so I have to take 6 days (Mondays) straight out of my allowance. This year it does make me square as my BH allowance is 45 hours, however other years the difference has had to come from my annual leave entitlement. Just the way it is though as I have to take those Mondays off and there is no flexibility for me to do a different day.

Seriously what is your problem?

she is working her part time hours, just on different days. Why does it matter?

you can’t switch your days as you work them all, so what are you supposed to swap to. Of course this is something that can only be given to part time workers. If you want it yourself then go part time.

Missing the point but I would never work somewhere with such a paltry holiday allowance
but when I worked 3 days a week I had 40 days including bank hols pro rata, I could also buy another 5 days pro rata
however I worked Monday to Wednesday and I had to take the Monday bank holidays on the day

No, unless their employer has no clue what they are doing.

Op surely you can see the differencr in an emplpyer agreeing people can work a random saturday than a day that already exists?

I'm not surprised you're confused 🙈 yes I did mean part timers and that will teach me to post when I'm tired 😅

But if the employee gets all paid leave pro rata and her her work days are the same length as the full time employees she will end up with fewer bookable days than the rest of the staff which doesn't seem fair.

28 x 0.6 = 16.8 - 8 (mandatory BH) = 8.8 bookable days, which is less than 3 weeks compared to full time staff who are left with 4 weeks after BH are taken out.

She isn't getting an extra day. You know if she doesn't work the BH Monday, she's not paid for it, unlike the rest of you who are off and being paid?

You work 4 days on a BH week and get paid for 5.

She works 3 days and gets paid for 3.6.

It's the same ratio. The only "benefit" is she has a little more flexibility over which days she works.

As a Mon-Thu who works Friday in BH weeks neither myself nor my employer see it as flexibility in the sense that I'm better off than the full timers! I do it to keep on top of my work and I can assure you my management are more than happy with that.

I think you all sound jealous and mean spirited. Work a Saturday and swap your day. Honestly.

I just don't see the problem with the flexibility, FTers childish jealousy aside. The flexibility is far bettet for the employee, and is a potential benefit for the company.

Yes, quite. Far better for the employee. Far better. The clue's in the name. Better in a way that isn't afforded to FT employees - that's sort of the whole point.

You've defeated your own argument.

Oh well that’s all right then.

What a nasty little bunch you are. If you think you are entitled to something or you want to argue your case for something, do it.
But don’t do it by trying to take something from someone else.

Rather than directing frustration toward a colleague, it would be more constructive for anyone who feels disadvantaged to raise the issue directly with management. If there are ideas or alternative arrangements that could provide more flexibility or fairness for full-time staff, those conversations should happen with the employer, not through informal criticism of someone who is simply operating within their contractual rights.

Why would you not allow something that benefits one person and does not disadvantage others?

Not allowing it is just mean spirited and petty.

Not disadvantaging and not benefiting are not the same. Why are you pretending to be surprised that people might also want the benefit that is being handed to another employee? I'm sure all the employees would love to take a week and a half off whenever they want too - but they are not allowed.

It's another holiday away, it's greater flexibility to make appointments, to see family, to go to their child's school events etc. So, yeah, it's beneficial.

Doesn't bother you? Great. But stop pretending it isn't valid.

But there is no practical way of offering this flexibility to full time workers. Very few companies allow people to work bank holidays when rest of the office is shut (bar say it on call or customer services call centres). No one lets people work Saturdays to make up for stuff in normal office situations.

There are 10 Bank holidays this year?? What have I missed?

Also NHS PT - if you are full time on the wards it works out great as the BH are added to your AL and you can take it whenever you want. Most like to work BH (extra money and often a quiet day in some areas) and you basically get an extra week plus 3 days to take whenever you want. So I was a bit sad when I moved to a Monday to Friday area and had to take BH when they fell (though I was overall pleased to not work WE or Nights hence the move). I managed it by booking AL for BH weeks whenever I could, so only using 4 days for a week off.
PT because BH hours are pro-rata you end up having to use AL hours to make up the hours allocated for a BH. So I work my usual week during a BH week, so that I don't lose hours and in fact have an extra bookable week. NY day I was on call so that's hardly holiday anyway so I just worked my usual hours.

However here's a thing - I am trying to book a week in June. Someone who is on maternity leave will be on AL added to her mat leave, she will be leaving anyway as they have moved but she hasn't handed in her notice yet. Someone else who works one day a week is also on AL. Manager says we can't have more than two people on leave in any week. I pointed out me plus the one day a week person still doesn't equate to one FT person so it's silly not to allow us both AL but she is sticking to it. Anyway I have three weeks to take before September and the calendar is looking booked out so she's going to have to let me be an additional person at some point. I'm biding my time to drop my demand for the three weeks...

Do the full timers really want to work on a Saturday? Hell, even if they did, it would likely not be good for the company, so that"s a reason not to do it.

This pt employee isn't being "handed" anything. It's no skin off anyone else's nose.

If the ft-ers want this "advantage" of flexibility then they can also go pt and put up with 30% less income and zero career progression.

Honestly, I can't even imagine what sort of jealous, small minded person you would have to be to begrudge another person such a small, inconsequential benefit.

Its nonsense - there is no “correct” way to do it, there is only the law on minimum holidays based on contract hours. There are significant business advantages to part timers offering flexibility in this way.

As a manager you surely focus on the business benefit and clamp down on nonsensical whinging from insufficiently busy staff. You don’t manage whingers by restricting perfectly normal and agreed contracts of their co-workers.
Having the OP doing their work on a day when the business is operational makes more sense than having them work at home when the business is closed. There are other business advantages to having a part timer offering this flexibility.

The part timer agreed their work model with the business when shifting to part time. Its a common agreement to avoid part timers having zero flex on vacation use and has business benefits. If the full timers want to go part time they would have the same option from what the OP says about the business.

The OP’s team sound like a bunch of children arguing over cake and whinging that the younger child with the smaller piece of cake has an extra sprinkle on top!

Good to see someone clearly spell out the potential business benefits to this model. It's noteworthy that the people complaining about this aren't addressing it.

She’s worse off overall though.

At my place, if I was full time I would get 27 days holiday plus 8 bank holidays. = 35 days off in the year. As I work 32.5 hours instead of 37.5 hours I get 35/37.5 x 32.5 =30.333 days holiday a year.
if my working day falls on a bank holiday then I have to book it as holiday if it doesn’t then I don’t. It makes it fair as then everyone gets the same amount of leave.

in your scenario it seems unfair that someone who works part time still has to work their full hours that week when full-timers aren’t.

She’s still working her 3 days regardless … not like she gets a BH so only works 2 days that week. Don’t get the problem.

I don’t blame her. I used to work in a vets, I worked Monday, Thursday and Friday. My bank holiday entitlement was taken out of my allowance. My colleague worked Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday and effectively had an additional 7 days holiday. Now that’s unfair.