If a wealth tax brought in zero revenue to the government, would people still support it? If yes, why?

[percypiggy200]

I’m curious and I’d love to know people’s reasoning.

Your hypothetical needs work.

If your hypothetical wealth tax won't raise anything, presumably those who would be subject to it would be happy to support it?

Or are you envisioning a wealth tax that changes the distribution of tax paid to be overall more progressive which means lower tax payers pay less? In which case it's understandable why many people would support the idea.

You need to explain what you mean.

Then Government hoped estimated that 3,000 students would leave the independent sector in the first year. It's been 25,000 instead. Where do you think they have gone then if not 'rushing to the state sector'?

Maybe enroll in a class OP? Or get a part time job?

Yeah but she wants to come home, love in London but continue to pay no tax

Eh? You must be reading very different data to me! You were never going to see a rush to state immediately, but you will see it each time people cross a natural crossroads at 4,11,16. The private schools are very much closing down, you'll be thrilled to know

Where did I say it was?

Has it? How lovely, a socially more level education sector. Wonderful. Hopefully those more well off and involved parents are amazing asset to their state school

This is indeed wonderful.

You seem to think wealthy people are entirely decoupled from the society that they grew up in, have built lives in.

Are there any nations that have higher tax rates than the UK?

Greater income inequality leads to worse heath and education outcomes, lower life expectancy, lower life satisfaction and lower happiness, even if GDP is higher too.

So I think there are sound economic arguments that a wealth tax that lowered income inequality could lead to better outcomes for more people in the UK even if that tax did not lead to an uptick in government revenue. But, as always, the devil is in the details.

Yeah but just because of the tax

@GeneralPeter absolutely we need to build more housing but governments can’t seem to do this.

Perhaps. On the other hand, private schools now even more economically exclusive.

A major argument used against private schools is that I) they educate only a small fraction of the population and (it’s claimed) hoard privilege for that group, and II) only the rich can access it.

Maybe those aren’t arguments you particularly agree with. But if you do, how does a policy that makes both aspects more true help matters?

I think in all discussions about tax people get hung up on ‘fairness’ (‘they have more than me, they can’t need it, children are going hungry etc).

When actually the really important thing is about incentives. We can use taxation to incentivise certain behaviours.

We know tax rates start to incentivise negative tax-generating behaviour if they get too high. In the case of a wealth tax, people might leave the UK (I already know some older couples who have left due to IHT as an example).

This is an excellent point. The glee (in fact that word was used in an awful thread title) that people expressed over "Tabitha and Sebastian" having to "slum it with the plebs" despite the clearly demonstrated lack of benefit to anyone else was awful. It showed what a nasty, envious and frankly dim view some people have about anyone who they perceived to be unfairly better off than them. So, OP, quite possibly some people would like it just on general principles of sticking a boot into "them".

Its nearer 11k and thats from the indie school sector itself, a drop of 1.9%, over 650k kids are still in the private sector (UK)

We have a falling birth rate after all, with less pupils joining.

Less children overall in UK schools too.

Are there any nations that have higher tax rates than the UK?

We tax lower & middle earners (paye) less than many other European countries but our housing costs tend to be higher. Our tax system is too complex, they need to scrap NI for one and roll it together with income.

We have a falling birth rate after all, with less pupils joining

This a huge issue, far fewer dc than expected as younger generations don’t feel they can afford them. Of course that will hit independents too.

Ok I see what you mean.

I mean if the revenue raised from the wealth tax is entirely offset by the cost of implementing it, the loss of tax revenue from the rich people that leave (bearing in mind that the top 1% pay 29% of the country’s income tax revenue so the UK is very reliant on them - even relatively small numbers leaving will have a big effect on tax revenue), the loss of corporate tax revenue because people are choosing to set up their company’s overseas or invest in non-UK parts of their businesses and all the wider effects of which there will be many.

No, because regardless of whether I agree with the principles behind any particular tax policy, I expect - as a minimum requirement - our government to come up with solutions which actually address the problem they say they want to tackle, ie raising tax receipts

How would they be more of an asset than poorer parents.?
Are you saying their wealth makes them better people?

Erm around my way all the private kids have flooded into the grammar schools and outstanding state schools on much higher numbers than they ordinarily would do. This of course has meant other state school educated kids miss out. Often those that can't afford the fancy houses in the heart of the catchment or the pricey tutoring for the 11 plus.

We have simply entered a world where the inequality is state funded. Hope you enjoy the Eutopia!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/news/25000-pupils-forced-out-private-schools-vat-labour/

No, just more divisive catchment areas by property prices. There's far more disparity between the state schools in my town than between the "top" one and the private school. Parents have v v limited input and power to schools..I don't know why people think otherwise. The ones who are truly wealthy and could donate a minibus are unaffected by the VAT. The ones who have had to leave are those who were just about scraping it together and don't have time or funds to do anything meaningful. They'll put the money that would have gone in fees into paying off their mortgage on a more expensive house, pushing a poorer family out of catchment of a good school.