Managing Gen Z

[Amy8]

I’m an experienced senior manager who took some time out to work as a consultant – partly to avoid exactly these kinds of situations!

Something happened last week that’s made me question my management style, which I’ve always thought was fair. The CEO asked me (quite urgently) to get something done. I was in a meeting, so I asked a junior team member to help out. It would’ve been easier to just do it myself, but I genuinely needed the support.

He replied that he needed to check with his line manager first because it wasn’t in his work plan (I manage his manager), and then added that he was logging off shortly for a long weekend which had been pre-agreed.

I stayed polite on Teams and explained that sometimes we have to be reactive to senior requests — but honestly, inside I was thinking, just do it! At his age, I’d have just cracked on.

It’s not the first time I’ve had this kind of pushback — others in the team (same age group) have also been quite firm about working from home and not wanting to come in when asked.

I’m genuinely wondering: is this just how the workplace is now — a generational shift and new boundaries — or is it a bit of a disregard for authority and should I be adapting better ?

Yep this did occur to me.

What also occurred to me (and I would probably be IR1ing) is the fact that you don't have access to essential patient systems and if they're that essential - you should have access. That's a process failure, not a poor guy about to go on annual leave failure.

You go into an MDT prepared or you're wasting everyone's time.

No I don’t , I work with a lot of youngs just fresh from Uni and they are anything but self directed . They lack initiative, they lack capacity to deal with real world problems and they lack common sense and real world knowledge . I’m sorry if this offends and yes it’s not all , but I’m part of the recruitment team as well as team leader and it can be very frustrating.

That's a process failure, not a poor guy about to go on annual leave failure.

It's a process failure by the 'poor guy' who isn't doing his job properly.

I have managed someone in her early 60's who claimed to be "traumatised" by being asked to move to a different desk, in the same office. She described the experience as "dehumanising".

I’ve managed to go from a Band 5 to a Band 7 (NHS) in 4.5 years so I think I’m doing ok thanks.

Well, I'm senior and literally have peoples lives in my hands every single day. I think the way you are coming across and lead is harsh. And I still agree with your employee. Urgent, life saving things can come up that have to be dealt with immediately, sometimes after hours, in my job. I might have to do it myself and usually do. I prefer a flatter management style. We're a team of peers but I'm still the final decision maker when an employee isn't sure of a course of action. We have a discussion and decide together.

In the end OP, if you are happy with your side of things and think there was an issue, talk to his line manager about it. They can address it with him and he will learn.

This makes no sense.

The OP wasn't unprepared, a new situation arose while they were at the meeting and they needed information to deal with it. It was a serious emergent issue.

Managing the system that provides this information is this employees' role.

The task would take 15 minutes, the employee had more than an hour before he would be off for the day.

yep, we received a software update and now (important button) is in a different area of the screen.
a couple of people immediately raised a grievance.

So when does your leave start,, mid-day on your last full day of work?

I've seen joke video reels that have gen z people thinking that but I assumed it was an exaggeration...

I am googling but max band 7 is £52k? And to get to band 8 you must “demonstrate significant progression in management, leadership and financial responsibility”
I am not sure that “I don’t give a crap” or “I’m not doing anything outside my job description” shows any management, leadership or financial responsibility? It wouldn’t, at all, ever, in the private sector. But perhaps it does, in the NHS?

Wasn’t his actual job until they made it his as they were not prepared for the meeting.

It is his job to maintain the system which would have enabled OP to access the information without having to leave the meeting.

Yes I do and have known people like that @BuildbyNumbere Many have left my company because of it, and we've just lost another one as they get tired of being strung along after putting in so much. It's a very common occurrence.

I posted before the drip feed.

“Doing ok” in the sense that I have achieved 2 promotions in fairly quick succession. For context, achieving a band 7 after 4.5 years is considered fast. £52k is significantly more than the average salary so I’m not sure that is something to be snobbish about.

I do my job and I do it well but I do not do anything more than what I’m paid for because I’m not a mug.

I agree.

I tend to start at around 8am so by rights my day should finish at 4pm. I usually start to leave by 4.30 which feels like the right time naturally (but I do take a shorter lunch and often have to work into the evenings when WFH).

I briefly moved to another team where my manager would often start her day at 10am. She had no children so I’m not sure why. By which time I had already been in for two hours, everyone else in the team had arrived and my day was well underway. Whenever I stood up to leave after 4pm, she would hurriedly ask me questions and give me an extra task (or two) before I left, despite me already having worked over my hours. I did it but it irked and there were a couple of times when I had appointments I had to tell her that I couldn’t miss.

I was always amazed by how panicked she sounded and how shocked she seemed by me ending my day, as if she was oblivious to the fact that she was a couple of hours behind everyone else.

I wonder if some posters on this thread would be understanding or if they’d tell me I should follow orders or else I’d never be promoted.

One thing I have taken from this is there seems to be too many layers of management in the NHS. There doesn’t seem to be a great deal of distinction between the young man, his line manager and the OP.

It sounds like this employee probably should have done the task they were asked, but also it sounds like OP doesn't have direct insight into his workload which does have relevance. Does OP know if he was working on other urgent things - possibly also for other seniors - or already committed to tasks that neglecting to do those duties might result in bad outcomes elsewhere?

Eg, I wonder how many employees would be happy for payroll to be late that week because a senior from another department pulled the junior off their "unimportant data entry" tasks. Or how many people are a-ok for their bank finance or house settlement to fall through because juniors were co-opted elsewhere, one part of the process then doesn't get done, and everything else goes down like dominoes. Have seen that happen before.

Basically in order to justify urgent immediate action outside of line management you have to have a wide view of workloads and priorities, or at the very least ask the question - can you do this, why can't you, what other things have to be de-prioritized but shouldn't? If he doesn't have the right order of priorities yet, that can be worked on via coaching, not punishment. I'd also look at whether his workload is actually reasonable, quite often pushback comes from staff feeling very overwhelmed and knowing not everything will get done because you're only one person and are expected to do 1.5-2 people's work.

My PA booked that because it was my first slot out of back to back meetings and she said it was urgent. No secret agenda on my part.

Not “a mug” or limiting your own progression? And I’m not being “ snobbish” at all. Choose your own path by all means, but do not moan that it’s “not fair” if you don’t progress beyond where you are.

I see where you are coming from here, but I'm not sure that is true. It seems to me there is a clear distinction between the OP and the young man, and he has failed to understand that. She is the director of the department he works in.

I am not sure why people keep saying she should have done the task herself. Directors have staff to do all kinds of things for them because they can't be expert in every task that is required for a department, don't have time to do them all, and it's generally dumb to have them doing that kind of admin stuff. Why would the public pay a large salary to a department director for admin work?

Where the line manager fits in I am not sure. But this kid does not seem to know what his job actually is for.

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

I am not sure why people keep saying she should have done the task herself. Directors have staff to do all kinds of things for them because they can't be expert in every task that is required for a department, don't have time to do them all, and it's generally dumb to have them doing that kind of admin stuff. Why would the public pay a large salary to a department director for admin work?

Yes, this is confusing me as well. IME senior staff don’t get involved with things like admin, initial report production, data extraction / interpretation unless it’s something super sensitive (and even then there would probably be a named junior to support if it’s anything technical). Once you get to OP’s level it’s more about strategy and decision-making rather than individual output.