Managing Gen Z

[Amy8]

I’m an experienced senior manager who took some time out to work as a consultant – partly to avoid exactly these kinds of situations!

Something happened last week that’s made me question my management style, which I’ve always thought was fair. The CEO asked me (quite urgently) to get something done. I was in a meeting, so I asked a junior team member to help out. It would’ve been easier to just do it myself, but I genuinely needed the support.

He replied that he needed to check with his line manager first because it wasn’t in his work plan (I manage his manager), and then added that he was logging off shortly for a long weekend which had been pre-agreed.

I stayed polite on Teams and explained that sometimes we have to be reactive to senior requests — but honestly, inside I was thinking, just do it! At his age, I’d have just cracked on.

It’s not the first time I’ve had this kind of pushback — others in the team (same age group) have also been quite firm about working from home and not wanting to come in when asked.

I’m genuinely wondering: is this just how the workplace is now — a generational shift and new boundaries — or is it a bit of a disregard for authority and should I be adapting better ?

I am aware of that. Please see my post at 10:07.

She started a judgemental thread and has become more judgmental of anyone who pointed out alternative perspectives.

Ha! With hundreds of applicants per job I don't think hiring or retention is an issue.

In most workplaces, those who show willing and put in the effort are well rewarded so are able to get on the property ladder, have holidays and invest for their future.

Those who work to rule.. quite simply won't have those benefits. It's a choice. I'm not looking to persuade you to change your attitude..just highlighting there are longer term costs to putting in minimal effort.

I do all the time (older millennial) because none of the higher ups bother to talk to each other or actually learn our schedule. So you end up with 3 different people asking you to do 3 different things in 3 different locations in the same time frame and none of them are actually what your job actually is.Even more annoying when they always ask ME to, but when questioned, they go “oh I’ll find someone else then” . Find someone else in the bloody first place then , so I can actually do what I’m supposed to do.

That's a big drip feed!

are you sure it was a 15 min task to "just access a system". Your scenario lacks credibility unless what you're saying is that you did not give a really clear understanding to them that you needed them to logon to a system, do x task and that all it would take was 15 mins.

if they knew the full facts it would be highly unlikely they would need to ask permission for a 15 min task.

something doesn't sound right as to how you've described this situation.

ETA labelling this as being specific to a generation is typical of the ageist shit you get on here. Putting people into pigeon holes and vilifying them just because the year they were born.

Or, had you read the thread, you'd have realized that the person you are referring to was on annual leave and not there. It was a lousy 15-minute task that was a part of his job.

I guess these days, doing your job is optional. SMDH

It's possible to 'show willing' by working your set hours and doing your job effectively, no need for hours of unpaid work or burning yourself out. Where I live there are loads of vacancies struggling to attract people, they're definitely not oversubscribed on the whole.

I finished work early yesterday - pre planned. If something came up that would have taken me 15 minutes beyond the time I was due to leave it would have totally messed up timings. As a manager, I’m always respectful of my team’s personal time! I’d also say it’s really hard to have 2 bosses setting work with different priorities being set. My team would always check with me over my director for advice if there’s a conflict of urgent needs. I think you’re being unfair to the employee in the example you’ve provided in the op.

OP, these responses are batshit.
He was rude and insubordinate to not follow a short request.
Do not doubt yourself.
You need to speak to his manager and he needs to have expectations spelt out to him.

In the real world I honestly cannot imagine such rudeness and disrespect flying in the professional private sector.

He'd have had his arse handed to him.
Mark his card firmly with his manager.
I would also hold his manger responsible for his attitude in their absence.

I totally agree with this.

The request was made at 2.30pm the OP wrote.
A 15 minute task.
He was leaving at 4pm.

His was a completely unacceptable response to a request from his bosses boss.

How EXACTLY is he supposed to check in with absent manager?

OP read back your posts. You definitely are coming across with the tone of they should do as I say because I say so. That's not an effective managerI totally disagree with this. Very often, asking politely but firmly something and expecting it to b3 done is being effective when something needs to be done urgentlyThe problem is gen z have been brought up to question everything, with the mindset that they won't do it because they don't want to and that is acceptable to do do.The typical 'Jack, you need to clean your room before we go out'. 'Why, I did it last week'. 'Because it's messy and starting to smell'. 'But I like it like that'...on and on....wasting time that could gave been spent just getting on with the task. Parents who fall into the trap of using gentle parenting to try to convince their kid why they should do something they don't want to do and are set in not doing.Sadly, this generation of kids are entering the workforce and just like they were a nightmare for their teachers, the buck is being passed to their manager.

You're going to get a lot of people saying he was right because mumsnet is full of people who hate work.

The problem you've really got is the same genZ will be asking for a payrise and promotion despite being unwilling to do anything useful.

It's also a lack of respect. I honestly think a male SM would find it easier.

You just needed to tell him " it will take you 15 mins, you need to do it and it takes priority" then if anyone wants to make you answer to what else didn't get done (unlikely anyone would raise that to you) you deal with it.

I'd also give the person feed back that they need to address's responsiveness and prioritisation to improve their performance. And time management. That's a good way of telling them to do what they need to do in the time allowed.

I honestly think some Gen Z are useless at critical thinking.

Did you push back on his concerns? "Your line manager is on leave so it's appropriate for me to ask you directly, and you still have an hour and a half of working time to get this done. If you aren't able to get something else done as a result of my request, let me know and I'll make sure someone else is able to pick it up for you." Surely something like that? As an experienced manager you should know that sometimes people experience a sense of panic towards the end of their working day if they still have some tasks they need to be completing.

If he was still refusing after that, yes, he was being unreasonable, though I'm not sure you can categorise a whole generation this way. I do feel Gen Z have been massively shafted on a societal level and that it can be difficult for them to find meaning in their work as a result, but I've still worked with many who are excellent and highly motivated.

It depends on the dynamics in the office though. If I liked and respected the more senior person asking, yes maybe. If I thought they were a jerk, no.

That's true, some people are far more willing to help certain members of staff than others.

You're going to get a lot of people saying he was right because mumsnet is full of people who hate work.

Is it?!

That’s assuming none of his other work was urgent and necessary and that no other urgent requests from “someone more senior” had been made during his work day.

Some people STILL do not seem to comprehend that the manager (they are all whining about you asking), wasn't even on the job, and off on annual leave.

YANBU at all. You are a manager and part of your job is to delegate a task that needs to be done so you can continue your meeting. Him not doing it, for whatever reason, meant that the meeting was messed up for you. He was wrong and he used excuses and misdirection to not do the task. I doubt very much that he was loaded down with work until he left.

Did you push back on his concerns? "Your line manager is on leave so it's appropriate for me to ask you directly, and you still have an hour and a half of working time to get this done. If you aren't able to get something else done as a result of my request, let me know and I'll make sure someone else is able to pick it up for you." Surely something like that? As an experienced manager you should know that sometimes people experience a sense of panic towards the end of their working day if they still have some tasks they need to be completing
Perfect example of the madness derived from 'gentle parenting'.

In real life, efficient managers don't have 15 mns to justify a task request that takes 15 minutes to do.

I don’t think this is an age thing at all.

I am 54 and would have replied in the same way. I think the employee was being respectful to his line manager and team. And obviously wanted you to be aware of the annual leave.

@Amy8 should I be adapting better ?
Yes. If your organisation cannot accommodate CEO requests without your staff working during their planned time off, take it up with the CEO.

I'm in a similar position to you.

This person had pre-agreed plans. You don't even know what they ould have been, a pre-booked train/ flight? An appointment? People's lives aren't so flexible that they can just cancel anything at a moment's notice.

When i give tasks to my junior who is Gen Z and it's late in the day, my first questions will be: what time do you finish? Will you 100% be able to complete this today? If they aren't able to, I give the task to someone else. She's happy to stay late to complete something, but for me, it has to be her choice/ free will, I wouldn't force her.

You're a senior manager and you're probably one for a reason. Same for me. I love work, I live for it, I prioritise it over other plans. I genuinely love it, it gives me structure, predictability, reward, in a way that many other aspects of life don't.

As juniors, you and me would have stayed late to do the task, as we take pride in our work, want to get on, want to be seen as reliable, high-performing. Lots of other people don't have that mentality. They're happy to stay juniors/ mid-level. Work isn't a priority to them. From Gen Z, I'm yet to meet someone that prioritises work to a high degree, it´s rare.

As managers, we just have to learn to accept mediocrity. The vast majority of people come to work to be there 9-5, do their job well enough, get paid and go home. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's a skill to accept and work with people with a different attitude.

Many, many people never stay late, and still do a very good job, my company is a great example of that. In fact, companies need to learn to work efficiently and within given operating hours, rather than seeing being at 135% capacity as normal.

My MD might message me at 4pm with a question. She always starts with 'pick this up when free, no rush' and if I do reply outside my working hours, she will genuinely tell me off, 'you shouldn't be dealing with this during your time off'.

I see my role as a senior to protect and respect the juniors. If someone wants to be pushed, I'll push them, but I won't push anyone without consent.

That’s assuming none of his other work was urgent and necessary and that no other urgent requests from “someone more senior” had been made during his work day
If that was the case, it was responsibility to tell OP that he was working on something else urgent and which did he need to prioritise.

It goes without saying that there are poor workers of all generations. However...

If I had a last minute request shortly before I was due to go on leave I would be unlikely to have the capacity to pick it up, even at 'only' 15 minutes, without needing to drop something else or doing something to a lesser quality. I would be busy handing work over and finishing things up so that they were in a good state to return to. I would probably also be doing all the little "5-10 minute" jobs that other colleagues had already given me earlier in the day so their work isn't impacted in my absence.

I'm not a millennial but, unless you are actively involved in the team on a regular basis, I also would think less of a manager who couldn't graciously accept that I might have a better understanding of my workload and be supportive of protecting commitments outside of work. For some people this may be important appointments, immovable deadlines, or caring responsibilities, or simply protecting their health and wellbeing, but it shouldn't be necessary for an employee to declare what it is for you to decide whether you deem it acceptable.

If you don't trust or prioritise others then what have you given them to mean that they should trust or prioritise you? Respect goes both ways and leadership should lead. Are you a leader or a boss?

How would that take 15 minutes to respond to?! I typed that out in 30 seconds.

Sometimes people need to have things explained in a little more detail, particularly if they don't have as much experience. Equally, if you walk away from a pushback from a junior colleague without any explanation, it justifies their thought process that they were in the right.

A good manager needs to make time for quick on the spot guidance moments, and this was one of those times.