A pass is a pass? GCSE

[Rumplestiltz]

At GCSE, a 4 is a pass. When employers/apprenticeships/further and higher education institutes ask for a pass in maths and English, it’s a 4.

So why the fuss about “strong” passes, which is a 5? Why does the Government organise its data on the proportion who get “strong” passes in English and Maths? Bridget Phillipson saying it’s a travesty that white, working class boys aren’t getting “strong” passes in English and Maths and their life chances are affected as a result. It kind of undermines those who work very hard to get to that pass line of a 4 (teachers and students) to be told it’s not good enough.

I am sure I will be told it’s very easy to get a 4 etc etc, but for some kids in these subjects, it isn’t.

So my AIBU is - a pass is a pass.

In the old days fewer people did O levels as there were also CSEs (with numbered grades). Fewer people went to university.
The standard uni offer in my day was BBC or BCC for places like Southampton, Exeter.
Things change.

What the fuck you’re taking about? A grade 4 is a Level 2. A grade 5 is a Level 2. A grade 9 is a Level 2. They’re all passes at Level 2.

But most people need good grades for whatever they are going on to after GCSEs. Only a few leave and only a very few can go ok in life like Princess Andre having only three GCSEs higher than a 3

That was my point.

A 4 isn't a 'pass' in the eyes of quite a few institutions. Parents can think it is, and feel it is for their child, and it might be in practice...but that doesn't mean schools, colleges etc. will view it as that.

Not everyone is academically gifted and that's fine. Everyone has their own strengths. But let's not pretend a 4 is a brilliant mark when in job applications or apply to university or wishing to study subjects at 6th form it wouldn't be considered highly.

It's not a fail for further educational purposes at all why do you say that?

When I was younger, to qualify for one of the big 3 public sector roles (police force, NHS or teaching) you needed GCSE grades of a level C in core subjects minimum. Does anyone know if that now means level 5 grades in Maths and English (&science??) or level 4 grades?

I managed to get four C’s two A’s
So I passed six and no further information has ever been sorted as to whether I pass them by a country mile or scraped by. It’s either a pass or it isn’t.
I later went on to get a first class honours at a red brick university and what would be considered a classic subject that has been incredibly useful throughout my career
So don’t give up if you scrape through just do better next time

Nobody is pretending it's a brilliant mark
A C wasent a brilliant mark either but both are passes.

I think, regarding why they talk about that in the media - it’s tricky to cover all bases when talking about top level stats. It’s the same with the exams and grades themselves - they have to be designed to cover abilities across such varying levels - from now having three types of As to having two types of C grade right down to the 1s and 2s. All kids should be encouraged to do the best they can in what will work for them - and no judgement at all! But for those working at the ‘hoping to get a 4’ level, it’s tough to hear about ‘strong passes’ - but then if we only analysed the 4s we’d be doing a disservice to those getting the 8s and 9s. It’s a really varied range out there - and thankfully a wonderful range of ongoing routes for all, not just A Levels and uni. Best to focus on yourself and not listen to all the media chat tbh.

For what it’s worth, as I understand it, in case helpful:

9 = A**
8 = A*
7 = A
6 = B
5 = C+ (strong pass)
4 = C- (standard pass)
3 = D (have to re-sit in English or maths)
2 = E/F
1 = F/G

It seems a bit mean to pick results day to suggest to parents online that their children's hard aren't grades aren't 'really' passes. (Not OP, I know that is saying that they are passes. But lots of replies.)

4s are passes. They're the requirements for more practical and vocational routes, even if they aren't high enough for traditionally academic courses. Huge numbers of young people will be desperately hoping for 4s in Maths and English today so they can move on with their chosen career path. If they achieve that, they've passed. How have they not?

Tbh, I thought a 4 was a C anyway. And 5/6 a B, 7/8 an A and 9 an A*

https://www.scg.ac.uk/our-courses/qualifications-entry-requirements

Main A level provider for a wide area. 98% A level pass rate.

No one is pretending it’s a brilliant mark. But it is a pass at level 2. And all educational institutions will recognise it as that. Clearly many level 3 programmes, such as A levels, need higher GCSE grades, but GCSEs aren’t just to enable progression to A level. Except in MN land of course.

There are a bunch of posters here who wouldn't 'pass' Critical Thinking or Empathy.

Of course if you 'just' pass a GCSE at a level 2 grade (ie 4) you shouldn't go on to do it at A level. Because A level (meaning Advanced) is a harder qualification that needs a full grounding from the level below. But that doesn't mean it isn't a pass.

Apologies, missed the quote in a glitch - an example of a college (with a very large number of students - about 800 - taking A levels) admitting with 5x4s at GCSE and with a decent range of subjects to choose from that do not require 5s.

You’ve proved my point! The C isn’t the same. As you were accepted for A levels* and you wouldn’t be at sixth form colleges now with a 4.

*though sounds unusual to me. Sixth form colleges for me early 90s were minimum 5GCSEs grades C-A with minimum B required in the grades you wanted to do A levels in it.
now they are 5GCSEs grades 5-9 (minimum 4a in English and maths if not part of the 5) and minimum 6 in the subject you want do do an A level in. I agree in your case it sounds like you should have done a btec. Or maybe you didn’t learn good study habits earlier on. We have a DC who struggled (and in fact scraped a 4 at English GCSE after a remark, we hadn’t thought to intervene in year 11 on mother tongue, we got tutoring on maths) and is now on course for a first in economics degree.

You are talking absolute gibberish. Schools do not get to choose what grade constitutes a pass! It is a 4. That is the case nationally. Schools don't get to set their own pass rate to make it look like they have more passes. What a ridiculous comment.

Though you will now get some posters on this thread saying an E at A level isn't a pass ....

@titchy It might technically be a pass, but it's not a pass in the eyes of many institutions - at least for the purposes of further education or jobs - which was my point.

A pass is a pass, except when it's not.

It was done when Gove was education secretary - 2017 I think.

Welsh board and N.I board kept letters for grades.

Means I still get corrected on here occaionally - and few years after England did this had other parents of then primary age kids try and insist it was all numbers here in Wales as well- err no not here it's not.

Except - it isn’t deemed a fail for further education purposes. Yes there are some sixth forms that will only let kids take A Levels with 7s, but there are many others that ask for a 6 or 7 only in the subjects they wish to study.
Look at degree entry at universities - the main gcse requirements even at some of the blessed RG unis are grade 4s in English and maths, provided you meet the A level grades.
And as is becoming abundantly clear, academic qualifications alone are no longer a passport to good employment prospects.
I wish rather than Philippson focusing on everyone getting 5s when they don’t need them, they concentrate on better post 16 routes for those for whom A levels are not suitable or who don’t want to do them. Vocational education in this country is a truly mixed bag, many apprenticeships are simply a way for companies to pay less than minimum wage while offering poor quality training and employment prospects, and 2 day a week college courses for the 16 years olds who probably need more support not less than their A Level taking contemporaries is the travesty, not the proportion not getting “strong” passes.

Grade 1 is a pass. I’ve taught kids who’ve worked really hard to get the lower grades, they are an achievement for many and there isn’t really a qualification equivalent to a GCSE 1-3 that we can offer in school (we can offer below GCSE). Grade 4 is a pass at level 2 and sits between a strong D and a lower C, grade 5 is strong C to lower B, grade 6 strong B, 7 equivalent to an A in GCSE. For whatever reason they decided they didn’t want numerical grades to easily match lettered grades.

GCSE 1-3 is level 1
GCSE 4-9 is level 2
A-level is level 3
BA/BSc with hons is level 5
MA/MSc is level 7

The level is used to draw academic comparisons. Below level 1 there are entry level 1-3.

Many unis (including Russell group) ask for Maths and English at grade 4 as standard in addition to the specific A level entry requirements.

A scrape is a pass.

It's certainly a pass for level 3 courses for the colleges local to me.

Nobody is saying a 4 is a brilliant grade (though it willbe a brilliant achievement for some students to get a 4). People are misunderstanding what a 'pass' means. If an exam has an official pass grade, then that is the pass grade, whatever parents or 'quite a few institutions' might say. Companies and institutions can obviously set their own requirements for employees higher than a pass, but they don't get to say 'a 4 isn't a pass'. Because it is.