Thread 13: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The 12 Observer reports currently available online: The real Salt Path | The Observer

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement: Raynor Winn

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Threads 2-11: Links all in the OP of Thread 12

Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse welcome. It would be helpful to read at least some of the Observer items above before posting. There are currently 12 interesting items on The Observer website and linked to above.

To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for twelve very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Have the sales or thefts of fudge gone up recently?
Will Simon's head ever turn up?
Has the shed of doubt yet burst at the seams?
Will the old charabanc hold up as a tour bus for our hip new band The Drive-By Scolders?
And finally, how much salt can we possibly cram into a giant pinch?

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge be with you.

For the Christopher Bland prize, yes. You must be unpublished, self or traditionally. Sales don't matter, according to the rules and eligibility criteria.
https://rsliterature.org/join-in/awards-and-prizes/rsl-christopher-bland-prize-award-eligibility-and-entry-guidelines

And yes, I guess she could pretend she hadn't written HTDDD. But I still think this would be frowned on.

I agree with you about the theft - thinking about the Hemmings inviting the couple to Christmas dinner when the stealing was ongoing, is just dreadful.

Some people aren't idiots as seen in some of the pre-Observer article reviews where ordinary people sensed that things don't add up. But sometimes, otherwise intelligent people, don't think critically or believe what they want to. Anti-science and anti-medicine ideas have become quite popular along with the bizarre beliefs of juicing raw veg or coffee enemas curing cancer, so the walking as healing might appeal to some. Or as someone else suggested, challenging the details of someone's terminal illness is seen as cruel.

Some of you may remember David Hampton who pretended to be Sidney Poitier's son and got celebrities like Calvin Klein and Melanie Griffith giving him money, gifts and a place to live. Hampton was a conman anyway but when he and his friend got turned away from Studio 54, he pretended to be Gregory Peck's son and Hampton started the Poitier scam which included free restaurant meals and all kinds of goodies. The play and film 'Six Degrees of Separation' were based on this scam. Hampton was personable and confident and, as he said himself, because he was black, white celebrities didn't want to be seen as racist by challenging him. He did get done for fraud in the end though.

Absolutely. It also doesn't address the embezzlement, which she has subsequently attempted to deflect by implying some kind of dodgy dealings - or at least chaotic admin - at the estate agency (mistakes were made), and also some woolly unsupported comments that the money was actually 'a loan' from Martin Hemmings. Quite frankly I can't see any attempt at public atonement, no matter how carefully managed, as able to expunge the many and varied 'sins of omission and commission' - not least because I can't see SW being able to pull it off, given her strangely charisma-free public manner and utter lack of humility. Sadly, I also feel that the die-hard fans simply don't care about all of the above because 'it's such a lovely book, and poor Moth, and everybody should just leave them alone, and Gaza and Trump 'n' stuff like that.' Time will tell I guess.

I hope somebody gets to the bottom of TSP and establishes 'The Truth' in so far as it can be established by fact checking the incidents described in TSP.

It may take a freelance journalist with a lot of time on their hands to achieve this. But in a post modern world I think its important that we all know the true story behind TSP, from start to finish.

If PRH decide to go ahead and publish OWH so be it. I wouldn't have a problem with that. But hopefully by then, the true story of TSP will have emerged, and whether people decide to buy any further books by SW will be entirely up to them. But, unlike the publication of TSP, this time,like smoking a packet of cigarettes, a health warning will be attached!

• Hopefully more insightful than when my mother used to smoke Silk Cut cigarettes in the 70s and each packet contained a card with the advice ' Smoking Silk Cut forms part of a healthy lifestyle'

Also for claiming to be 'unflinching honest' when it seems it was anything but.
I think maybe the brassneck stems from SW assuming the NDA prevented anyone from discovering the truth.

I’m wondering about @Hyenana ’s point that SalRay looks so happy in that picture from Lands End, but not the others. There’s one of her by a load of barrels and when you look at just her mouth or just her eyes she looks so sad and tense.

I keep going back to the relationship between her and Timmoth. I feel a lot of explanation lies in that. Do we have a Psychology Correspondent in the house?

Not a psychologist per se, but trained as a transpersonal psychotherapist for a while at the CCPE in London.

Late to the party here but just to say I totally see why Penguin have only issued a bland statement supporting RW; they don’t really have much choice. Particularly if she’s highlighting how distressing this all is (though of course conveniently ignoring the distress she’s caused to others.) Knowing her mental health may be very fragile they need to show support, whatever the publishing staff may think of her on a personal level.

I suspect the public statement is one thing, what’s going on behind the scenes quite another.

Whatever the personal sensitivities may be, I don't think it's proper for Penguin today still to be representing the book as "unflinchingly honest" and "true" in their online sales materials. To put it mildly, they can no longer have confidence that those statements are not misleading advertising.

The Times interview below is worth a read!

Raynor Winn and her terminally ill husband on the joy of wild walking

Afaik there are no second prize winners in that competition, but this is the rest of the shortlist for that year, so the jury would have to get back together possibly, or maybe there was an internal vote count? Or mabe they just start their winner list with the year after.
Thomas Bourke The Consolation of Maps (Riverrun)
Barbara Jenkins De Rightest Place (Peepal Tree Press)
A J Pearce Dear Mrs Bird (Picador)
Roland Philipps A Spy Named Orphan (The Bodley Head)
Alex Reeve The House on Half Moon Street (Raven Books)
https://rsliterature.org/11171-2/

I suppose if they could manage to get her on the technicality that it wasn't her first book (if it can be proven that IWT is indeed her) it would be a neat solution to get a fraudster off their winner list - easier than arguing about the moral merits of the book.

Archive link for who needs one
https://archive.ph/qK8uj

I mean she won TEN GRAND for that. Ten grand.

I'm trying to remember how we administered it when I was on the panel for a First Book award - I think all entrants had to sign something to declare that this was their first ever published work so if something subsequently came to light we had their falsehood bang to rights. So it would be a matter of 'proving' that HTDDD was written by SW, and I'd guess if she held to her story that it wasn't her it would be hard to prove (although the co incidences would be bound to make everyone raise a LOT of eyebrows). But that just means that anyone can publish a book under one name, change their name and pretend that a book is their 'first' as many times as they like! Which absolutely isn't fair.

Yes self publishing counts
https://rsliterature.org/join-in/awards-and-prizes/rsl-christopher-bland-prize-award-eligibility-and-entry-guidelines/

In TSP she says the doctor told them 6-8 years is the normal life expectation for CBD from onset of symptoms, but that Moth had already had symptoms for 6 years (therefore a prognosis of only 2 years according to what the doctor said)

Here she says he was given 8 years.

I suppose one way to try to prove it is AI stylistic comparison which seems to be pretty good at catching these things nowadays.

Also, wasn't she listed as CEO of Gangani while the owner names presented on the web site were fictitious which already proves there was impersonation going on. And if no real-life Izzy comes forward it really all points towards Sally.

We'll have to wait and see.

I haven't heard a word about having her stripped of the prize, it's like this has been forgotten about. So it's the 'runners up' I feel for, imagine losing out to a book that turns out to be a fraud, and just having to sit back and resign yourself to it!

Still persevering with TWS audiobook. It’s hard going but there are some cracking quotes which are all the better and more ironic for being voiced by SalRay, now we know what we know:

”Opportunity knocks but karma hunts you down!”
”You can find out almost anything about someone using google!”
”When your trust has been betrayed in the past it can be traumatic!”

(Apologies if quotes not exact - was just listening not reading)

Also - unlikely conversation recorded by SalRay #3,481:

They go to Iona to look at the Abbey/Celtic Christian community and - GUESS WHAT???!
Yes, of course, they are treated with utter disdain and rejection - in fact - a proper drive-by scolding.

Community member: ”Are you here to pray?” (snooty, superior tone of voice).
SalMoth (all innocent and polite): “No just looking”.
Community member (aghast): ”Well this isn’t just a tourist attraction …”
SalMoth then protest that in fact they’ve just had a quasi- spiritual experience walking in the nearby wilderness.
Community member is outraged and chides them for thinking they could have a spiritual experience outside the Abbey walls. ”You won’t find a thin place OUT THERE. THIS is where you’ll find what you seek.”
SalMoth (sounding a bit mardy): “Well we’re not seeking anything anyway”.

Aside from perpetuating the characteristic (and frankly increasingly wearying) “all other people are mean and rejecting” narrative, this exchange sounds especially unlikely. As I understand it, Celtic Christianity places unique importance in a deep connection with nature and would not view spiritual experiences as being restricted to within 4 walls of an Abbey - or shut down someone talking about their spiritual experiences and connection with nature. I can’t imagine a community member responding in this way.
(But I’ve never been - so am willing to be wrong).

I would not expect it at this time while the story is still unfolding.

But thinking of the runners-up I wonder if any of them would even want to be named winner in retrospect - it's a very second-best way of winning, and would always tie them up with her name as 'not even as good as a fraudster'.

I guess if the Bland prize people do anything at all they will probably strip her of the prize but not re-allocate it.

Do you know any of the authors/books on the shortlist by the way?

@ShrinkWrappedInSeattle Yep, unadulterated bollocks and offensive with it. Bog-standard Winn/Walker.

Just seen this on Amazon. When did they change the cover of the paperback to the film photo? Will using this photo will encourage people to see the book as fiction? Has Angela Harding asked for her artwork not to be used? What do people think?

And do you have any opinion of what can be interpreted from her facial expressions, that would confirm or contradict the armchair psychology interpretation that @AlertCat and I have come to?

@ShrinkWrappedInSeattle
I actually find the role reversal of them being accused of acting like typical tourists and not spiritual enough very funny 😁

I know a bit about Iona and its ethos because a friend has been very involved for decades and I know many other people who have spent time there. The community were praying for me at the Abbey in my recent illness and are quite happy to pray for anyone, Christian or not. They don't ask and they don't care.

I absolutely do not believe that Raymoth were treated in such a way there, of all places.

ETA that pair would rock up at the Pearly Gates and accuse St Peter of being off with them.