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Civil Service internship. Only children of the "working class"

1000 replies

Quirkswork · 01/08/2025 11:02

If your child is coming up for 14 and interested in a career in the Civil Service and you have a job in a profession or that means you pay a lot of tax, I suggest you down tools now.

As reported in the Telegraph,

Civil Service internships will only be offered to students from lower income families in a bid to make Whitehall more working class, ministers have announced.

Only young people from “lower socio-economic backgrounds” will be able to apply to Whitehall’s internship programme, the Cabinet Office has said.

A student will be judged eligible depending on what jobs their parents did when they were 14. Students with parents who are receptionists, electricians, plumbers, butchers or van drivers would be among those eligible for the programme.

OP posts:
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17
cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:11

NCForThatForumM · 02/08/2025 15:08

The fact that senior corporate positions, senior media positions, the student body of top universities and government is STILL dominated by the privately educated despite the privately educated only being 7% of the population is wild to me.

That's what happens when you ditch grammar schools.

People in elite jobs require an elite education and that is now denied to those of us in the state sector.

But a whole load of people have said that there’s no academic advantage to private ed and the excellent candidates would do just as well in state…
Grammar schools had many, many problems. Still do where they exist. They also follow exactly the same curriculum as state schools in the exam years (as do private schools) because they are preparing students for the same exams (yes, I’m aware some do IB etc. so do some state schools). Not sure where this ‘elite education’ idea comes from.

August3r · 02/08/2025 15:11

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:07

If it’s pointless why are you so worked up about it?
It’s a change to the eligibility for a 200 person internship.
Not even sure why the press have made a deal of it. Because they have seen a way to rile up some more people against Labour I expect.
It’s not a ‘measure’ it’s an admin change. Very small numbers involved. No scope for ‘vote buying’.
Honestly I think people have become so cynical after the Tories doing everything for their mates or for votes and nothing for ordinary people that nobody can recognise a bit of dull government work for what it is anymore.

Because it does nothing to change the huge inequalities in this country , it’s a patronising crumb chucked out and just shuffles boxes, removing from the squeezed lower middle and making things even more unequal for them. It is indicative of their view towards the middle ie they don’t give a shit and will trample all over them if it gets them off actually challenging and sorting the huge inequalities in this country. There will be more similar so actually the many voices on here who think it’s shit have every right to call it out.

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:12

Baital · 02/08/2025 15:11

No, you need recruiters to 'elite' jobs to look beyond recruiting 'someone like me' on the assumption that they are the peak of possibility

Given the vast majority of civil servants are state educated ‘someone like me’ will also be state educated.

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:13

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:07

We’ve just established that the vast majority of senior civil servants are state educated.

No. The vast majority of civil servants. The senior staff are still mostly from private. Maybe we are on the way to that changing when they retire, maybe not.

Baital · 02/08/2025 15:13

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:12

Given the vast majority of civil servants are state educated ‘someone like me’ will also be state educated.

So what is this 'elite education '?

TizerorFizz · 02/08/2025 15:14

Nurse is a degree level occupation. It’s a protected occupation. Nurses median pay is around £37,000 and they start at £31,000 and, of course, no need to not have a job. Half of nurses get more than £37,000. Food bank? Others get far less money!

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:14

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:12

Given the vast majority of civil servants are state educated ‘someone like me’ will also be state educated.

I thought we’d already established CS wasn’t an elite career.
So many contradicting arguments being made about a 200 person internship which isn’t even the only internship available in the CS.

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:15

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:13

No. The vast majority of civil servants. The senior staff are still mostly from private. Maybe we are on the way to that changing when they retire, maybe not.

Comprehension not your strong point?

1 in 4 of those in the current 6,000-strong Senior Civil Service went to independent school.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/action-plan-to-increase-socio-economic-diversity-in-the-civil-service

Westminster, London

Action plan to increase socio-economic diversity in the Civil Service

New research by the Social Mobility Commission shows that civil servants from poorer backgrounds are less likely to make it to senior levels.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/action-plan-to-increase-socio-economic-diversity-in-the-civil-service

WilfredsPies · 02/08/2025 15:15

I’m absolutely stunned by some of the posts on this thread. I mean, I was fully aware of the hatred that some of you people feel for the working classes, and poor people in particular. The fact that some of you would rather live in a tent in the right postcode than live within 500 yards of social housing demonstrates that. But this is really something else.

The people who said they came from very deprived backgrounds spoke of a world with no broader horizons - decent parents will give their kids an idea the sky is the limit. You can do that with books or a free museum trip just as much as with a skiing holiday. And they will seek promotions in their work to provide the best they can for their kids. They will save too, in case of hard times, rather than spending every last penny. They will try to advance themselves. Then they will become middle class and their kids will not be wanted in the civil service!
I could have been a housewife. My ex-husband had little ambition and we could have lived in relative squalor. But I used my brain and held down a decent job and paid for childcare to do that - as anyone should - and provided a decent home. This is apparently privileged behaviour! So just work harder and there’ll be no poverty? Ahh, I wonder why this didn’t occur to my parents? Maybe it was because they both left school before they were 15, with no qualifications, so they could get jobs, the same as their parents did, so they had no idea that broader horizons were even out there and the concern was to get a job, the steadier the better, so that we could keep a roof over our head and food in the cupboard. Or maybe it’s because domestic violence, complete lack of a support network, twins, cancer and other debilitating illnesses aren’t lifestyle choices? With a brain like yours, you shouldn’t restrict yourself to just a ‘decent’ job. You should be advising the Chancellor. Or at the very least, standing outside food banks with a megaphone, announcing to people that they don’t need to be in poverty, they can get out of it by just getting a better paid job. Genius.

To those who don’t take responsibility for their actions and blame abstract groups of oppressors for poor life decisions, reality must feel like discrimination and life will always be a struggle 😂 You absolute fool. Get back in your bubble; you’re embarrassing yourself.

Re house prices excluding attendance at certain state schools That’s parental choice, surely? The school is free Do you think an ability to afford an extra grand a month in mortgage costs is a parental ‘choice’?

I wouldn't want any kids to miss out because of their parents life choices Life choices? You think that someone looks at a high flying, well paid career in the city and thinks to themselves ‘no, that’s not for me. I don’t want a beautiful house, a nice reliable car and exotic holidays every year. I’d rather scrub other people’s toilets, or deliver their shopping to them’?

Bloody hell there are so many turkeys voting for Christmas on this thread
Good luck when other groups go all virtue signally and do the same thing. When the NHS becomes the preserve of those whose parents are market sellers or who have connections in the NHS. When the police becomes the preserve of children of home help carers or people connected to current officers. When academia becomes the preserve of people who are not actually academic, or people with connections to academics Do you even understand what’s being offered here? It’s a relatively low number of internships designed to show a relatively low number of kids that they can work in the civil service too, and it’s not just for the posh kids, who can still apply for the fast streams, and the full time positions, as they always have. The CS isn’t suddenly going to become the preserve of the working classes because a door has been opened to them, anymore than Asda will become the preserve of the middle classes because they’ve decided they’d like to compete with Waitrose and have reserved half a dozen jobs for people with RP accents. And these interns still have to meet other criteria. They still have to be suitable and capable candidates. Jayden isn’t going to single-handedly bring down the Civil Service when he turns up in his tracksuit clutching a single gcse in woodworking, and saying he can’t work Wednesdays as that’s when he meets his probation officer, ffs. 🤦‍♀️

In terms of networks my WC have much stronger networks as they have generations to build them. It is pretty common for them to have got employment through those contacts And do you think that uncle Dave’s plumber mate will be talking to your peer’s children about pursuing a career in law? Or in medicine? Or architecture? Or will it be an occupation where they might earn a bit of cash now, but their bodies will be knackered well before retirement age? Do you think your MC peers contacts will be talking to their children about getting a job in Asda? Or as a hair dresser? Can you see how networks in different classes would achieve different results? Or do you still think it’s comparable across the classes?

I can’t decide if it’s outrage that there are 200 less positions for your own DC, if you’re worried that the role will be de-valued by the plebs getting involved or whether it’s just general outrage that some uppity commoners might want a bit more from their futures than their parents had.

ruethewhirl · 02/08/2025 15:16

Drfosters · 01/08/2025 14:57

How does one know if they have entered into the ‘upper middle class’

One knows by the fact that one uses 'one' in day-to-day communications. (tongue only partially in cheek)

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:17

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:15

Comprehension not your strong point?

1 in 4 of those in the current 6,000-strong Senior Civil Service went to independent school.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/action-plan-to-increase-socio-economic-diversity-in-the-civil-service

Earlier figures suggested senior roles were mostly privately educated. I think we may be talking about different groups. More senior as opposed to most senior.
No need to be rude though.

Notonthestairs · 02/08/2025 15:18

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:10

Except 75% of senior civil servants are state educated so the civil service is clearly dominated by the stated educated

State educated doesn’t automatically mean working class. It’s targeting working class students, not all state educated students.

The Social Mobility Commission established that only 18% of senior civil servants are from working class backgrounds.

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:19

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:17

Earlier figures suggested senior roles were mostly privately educated. I think we may be talking about different groups. More senior as opposed to most senior.
No need to be rude though.

Earlier figures? Could you link a reliable source, like a government website?

Notonthestairs · 02/08/2025 15:19

Should have asked if comprehension wasn’t your strong point

NaicePeachJoker · 02/08/2025 15:19

Notonthestairs · 02/08/2025 15:18

State educated doesn’t automatically mean working class. It’s targeting working class students, not all state educated students.

The Social Mobility Commission established that only 18% of senior civil servants are from working class backgrounds.

How do they define working class?

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:21

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:19

Earlier figures? Could you link a reliable source, like a government website?

It was on the thread. Have a little read back.
Also as pointed out above it’s not all about type of schooling.
Your tone is getting unnecessarily aggressive. I won’t be responding to you again.

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:21

Notonthestairs · 02/08/2025 15:18

State educated doesn’t automatically mean working class. It’s targeting working class students, not all state educated students.

The Social Mobility Commission established that only 18% of senior civil servants are from working class backgrounds.

Clearly not. As I have pointed out repeatedly, you can be more advantaged attending a state school than a private school. I know several multimillionaires who attend my DC state school, mostly with a trades background.

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:22

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:21

It was on the thread. Have a little read back.
Also as pointed out above it’s not all about type of schooling.
Your tone is getting unnecessarily aggressive. I won’t be responding to you again.

So no.

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:22

NaicePeachJoker · 02/08/2025 15:19

How do they define working class?

This is getting a bit circular now. You’ve had this information and discussion before.

NaicePeachJoker · 02/08/2025 15:25

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:22

This is getting a bit circular now. You’ve had this information and discussion before.

You could try answering? Anyway this is is specific to the social mobility commission saying 18% of senior civil servants are working class in the quote I replied to. It’s a pretty meaningless statistic without a definition of working class, wouldn’t you agree?

August3r · 02/08/2025 15:27

Browniesforbreakfast · 02/08/2025 15:21

Clearly not. As I have pointed out repeatedly, you can be more advantaged attending a state school than a private school. I know several multimillionaires who attend my DC state school, mostly with a trades background.

That’s not what stats show.

Notonthestairs · 02/08/2025 15:27

Obviously worth reading full -

Figure 4 demonstrates that the Civil Service gets consistently more socio-economically exclusive at every grade; at the lowest grade, Administrative Assistant/Officer (AA/AO), 45% of staff are from high SEBs, but this rises to 72% among senior civil servants (SCS).
Three points of comparison are revealing here. First, in 1967, 67% of the SCS were from high socio-economic backgrounds, 10% were from intermediate backgrounds and 19% were from low socio-economic backgrounds.[footnote 42]
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/navigating-the-labyrinth/navigating-the-labyrinth-socio-economic-background-and-career-progression-within-the-civil-service#section-1---understanding-socio-economic-diversity-in-the-civil-service

cardibach · 02/08/2025 15:29

NaicePeachJoker · 02/08/2025 15:25

You could try answering? Anyway this is is specific to the social mobility commission saying 18% of senior civil servants are working class in the quote I replied to. It’s a pretty meaningless statistic without a definition of working class, wouldn’t you agree?

I answered before, but you wouldn’t accept it. And then said I wouldn’t respond to you again. Which I’ll now go back to.

NaicePeachJoker · 02/08/2025 15:34

August3r · 02/08/2025 12:14

Pupils in state schools get good results too, they just don’t get the unfair advantages and contacts on top. Private education is out of the pockets of most of the population hence only 7% being privately educated which the top jobs should reflect.

I don’t know why top unis and jobs in all sectors don’t have a 7% privately educated limit. You could then expand on CO and help for the poorest. Everybody would have more chances and social
mobility would improve hugely.

It’s more than 7% who attend in their education. People dip in and out. Anyway why would they have a limit on what school a pupil goes to at university? If you think PS give such an advantage then send your DC there? It’s a free country, kind of.

I’m comprehensive educated, but DCs are private. By far the biggest advantage they have compared to when I went to school is avoiding the bad behaviour of other pupils.

August3r · 02/08/2025 15:37

NaicePeachJoker · 02/08/2025 15:34

It’s more than 7% who attend in their education. People dip in and out. Anyway why would they have a limit on what school a pupil goes to at university? If you think PS give such an advantage then send your DC there? It’s a free country, kind of.

I’m comprehensive educated, but DCs are private. By far the biggest advantage they have compared to when I went to school is avoiding the bad behaviour of other pupils.

How could I send my children to private school when a place costs more than I earn?

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