Civil Service internship. Only children of the "working class"

[Quirkswork]

If your child is coming up for 14 and interested in a career in the Civil Service and you have a job in a profession or that means you pay a lot of tax, I suggest you down tools now.

As reported in the Telegraph,

Civil Service internships will only be offered to students from lower income families in a bid to make Whitehall more working class, ministers have announced.

Only young people from “lower socio-economic backgrounds” will be able to apply to Whitehall’s internship programme, the Cabinet Office has said.

A student will be judged eligible depending on what jobs their parents did when they were 14. Students with parents who are receptionists, electricians, plumbers, butchers or van drivers would be among those eligible for the programme.

not sure why people get so worked up. Your poor privately educated child can’t get a CS internship. Sure their expensive education and connections via parents will still place them miles ahead than the teens eligible for this apprentice.

Well you wouldn't be getting into the civil service regardless of your background if you think a coherent argument is a 'word salad'

I very nearly did vote for them and it would have been the first time I ever did. So glad I didn’t now. Voted Conservative again and if it looks like the Cons are still low in the polls next time then I will be voting Reform.

I think this is a great idea. My partner is a doctor though, we live in the south east, when we need a plumber or an electrician their hourly rate is more than my partner earns. Our electrician friends are absolutely loaded. So I think theres something wrong with the eligibility criteria. Perhaps using postcode / deprivation score might be better? Or school characteristics?

I agree
It’s trying to pick up votes as
They are so unpopular at the moment

What is it lately with MNers bitching about 'word salad' when someone takes the trouble to explain things using... y'know, actual words? 🙄

Not everything can be summed up in fewer characters than a social media post. Nor should it be.

I’m not applying. Was it or was it not open to every graduate?

Havr you actually read the thread? It’s the parents of the non privately educated squeezed middle 93% of the population who are pissed off.

How would you describe this ?
‘And it's not open to all children if anyone can apply. ’

having a shiny degree from Oxbridge does not always translate into stellar performance in the workplace

The point is that the best predictor of getting a job that pays well with power and influence is parental profession not A levels, not University degree class or location, so Oxbridge can be as inclusive as it likes for the working classes, they can get the shiniest degrees in the world, they are still not getting the top jobs.

But sadly they are going to lose a lot more, mine included.

Which party looks out for the squeezed middle? It absolutely wasn’t the Tories before anybody suggests that!

I am a CS, and if this was around when I was younger i’d have qualified. My DC don’t, and I think rightly so. They have 2 parents who have a degree, have good connections, can help get work experience in some amazing places through parents connections. My parents didn’t even want me to go to uni, and wouldn’t have had any idea how to help me. These schemes just even things up, as I explain to my own DC.

And it's not open to all children if anyone can apply.

It is not open to any children. The internship is for adults.

Actually I believe that previously it was only open to ethnic minorities and the disabled - also unfair.

You say you're against social engineering, and that you want every child to be treated as an individual.

The point is that social engineering is already happening. People with more resources and connections get on in life far more easily (do you dispute that?).

That is social engineering. And therefore every child is already not being treated as an individual, but certain ones are being given an unfair advantage.

Schemes like this go some way (a very small amount really) towards cancelling that out.

Re the criteria specifically, obviously there is no perfect way of doing it fairly. Presumably they are based on data though, so it will be fair for the group as a whole, even if not for every individual.

So why is a race to the bottom the answer?

Doctors should be paid more, obviously. That doesn’t mean that electricians are worth less.

Oh it's just another stupid catch phrase MN posters like to use because they think it makes them sound clever and funny. I think they see it as a hilarious in-joke.

See also - First post nails it as usual! Or if you go to FWR they love "The emporer has no clothes on" .

It's just childish really.

It is NOT social engineering when people act as individuals. Social engineering is influencing populations as whole.

This is a fair point. But I'm guessing that it's often more complicated than money earned?

Teachers earn less than doctors, but their kids tend to do very well academically and their children are well represented in all careers.

Plumbers and electricians may earn a lot if self employed, but if they work for a company, they won't earn a fraction of their hourly call out rate. (Don't forget that call out rate has to cover vehicles, equipment, training, advertising, holiday pay,sick pay, insurance, pension and some profit for the business). A Doctor's hourly rate is straight in their bank account ( and comes with a fantastic pension which effectively doubles the rate of pay)

How do you define working class? Income? Where you live? How your parents jobs are defined? One or both parents? Grandparents... etc.

No they don’t. We have degrees and have zero connections. None.

Irronically my husband came from a really poor family, both parents left school at 14 and he went to night school to get his degree. They were the kids the neighbours fed and gave clothes to.Fat lot of good his degree has done him and now it excludes his kids.

Yes - I've noticed this. And it seems to be people who don't actually understand the term.

No they’re not as the chart in the bbc article shows. The privately educated and higher socio economic group are hugely over represented. The intermediate group in the middle is the most under represented and now that will get worse.

It's certainly not income because train drivers are on there and they earn £60k-£70k, sometimes more, tube drivers can earn up to £100k and it's not like it's their own business like plumber or electrician might be

Yes. It would make sense to define what working class is before saying there isn’t enough working class people in the CS.