To not hand notice in until contract signed and references passed

[Jobadvice1]

Recruiter with job offer putting pressure on me to provide earliest start date for new role

What is the etiquette here

Is it okay for me tell them I only feel comfortable handing my notice in when I’ve been given a contract which I’ve signed and confirmation I’ve passed referencing. I’m worried to risk handing my notice in before this.

sorry I sound stupid but how would I phrase this to recruiter professionally? Is this a normal request?

They haven’t given me any contract yet or told me about their referencing process. Today sent me a chaser to confirm my earliest start date

It’s a bit chicken/egg but how do you expect a company to write a contract and send it to you without knowing an expected start date?

@AnSolas and others who expressed similar -Thank you I appreciate you meant well but just to update it didn’t go as planned, they have since said they are unable to change proposed start date.

After filling in and returning what was asked, I then got an actual contact sent. I noticed start date would be quite soon so thought I would tell them I planned to resign/ hand notice in once ref completed and offer is unconditional. I asked can start date therefore be flexible and adjusted if needed depending on completion of pre employment checks and my notice period. They said no and I would need to still to go for original start date and suggested I negotiate notice period with current employer instead.

I created another MN topic about this and learnt most people thought I was completely breaking etiquette and new company won’t be happy with how I approached this.

Thank you for your advdice, it’s just I had a different experience with this new employer and start dates weren’t so meaningless to them despite not yet having confirmation of references.
I asked if start date could be flexible depending on how long checks take and they still want me to commit to original start date and should negotiate my notice period instead to meet it.

I think it's insane the company won't let you change the start date, especially as it's them holding up the process with checks. I wouldn't want to work for a place that is showing this kind of behaviour when you haven't even started yet! I think it's fine if you can negotiate an earlier end date, but it all sounds very awkward and stressful. If you can't start on that date are they then withdrawing the offer, in which case it confirms they are a dumb place to work as they will then need to start the process again. Red flag!!

You really need to work on your boundaries and assertiveness. Even your amended email said if that's okay - which is a coded way of saying please let me lie down while you wipe your feet on me.

I don't even know where to start with your original email!

Hi @WaryHiker thanks for the advice, the reason I am not particularly assertive is because I have ASD, hence struggle with social etiquette in general. This is the reason I came to forum asking for advice on what ‘normal’ people would do, and to calm my fear of the uncertainty. I’m sure moderators could confirm I’m a long term user.

It may seem silly that someone could make such obvious mistakes to normal neurotypical people but I genuinely find change very stressful which then leads to my brain fog.

I’m still wide awake at nearly 2am because of regretting my previous actions.
& just to add please don’t think I’m playing disability card for my mistakes, I can acknowledge I was in the wrong

‘I will hand my notice in when I have received a copy of my signed contract and confirmation of passing referencing. My earliest start date will be wholly dependent on those three factors.’

Having a contract is irrelevant. All it guarantees is your notice once you've started. They can pull the offer at any time for any (non discriminatory) reason, or sack you on your first day, and at any point up to two years years.

Confirmation of passing referencing - again, irrelevant. You can pass all your referencing and they can still sack you the second you walk through the door if you tell them that you like Mrs Brown's Boys (and rightly so).

Every company I've worked for has only done references as part of the onboarding process on your first day. Surprised to see so many people in this thread with a different experience.

In some ways you're right, because once you're at the reference stage the job is yours pending on that. Ime it's always pending on those, although it's unlikely you'd give poor references in the first place so technically it's arbitrary

Some of us work in areas where references are checked before we can be employed. So if we need DBS or another type of security check its effectively finalised before we can be given a start date.

Therefore we have no contract of employment just a conditional offer so the job dont have to pay out a notice period. So you leave one job and get no pay cheque from the other if something happens eg the role is gone or they decide they dont like your face.

In this situation the new employer is not being flexable or trying to meet her needs with regards to a start date.

Or about her leaving her current job on good terms so that her manager would be happy to give her a good reference to her next employer and the ones after that too.

On seeking references I would normally say that a potential employer can contact all prior employers except the current one until such time as they are willing to offer me the job.

I have told them what type of reference they will get from my current employer. So if I am leaving for reasons and my current manager brings that up its not a suprise and the new emoloyer has already decided to go ahead anyway.

In financial Services not listing all past employers is a sackable offence as they need to know that you were not sacked for cause by the 2 day/week/month job you left off your CV.

The OPs employer is setting a tone If/when they ask her to break her current contracts notice period.

I’ve always seen referencing take place before final offer? I’ve never resigned until the day I have signed a contract and that’s always been the expected behaviour from hiring companies.