to believe Rachel Reeves was crying because

[LargeDeviation]

1. she was upset when Lindsay Hoyle told her to keep her answers short

2. she had an argument with Keir Starmer (possibly about her keeping her job, or about how to handle the inevitable questions about the new £5.5bn per annum black hole) just before PMQs

3. Keir Starmer refused to say she would keep her job in front of the whole country. If he genuinely wanted her to stay, he would just say 'of course she's going to still be Chancellor' and that would be that.

4. she is under immense pressure because she knows she will have soon to breach her fiscal rules, she knows she is responsible for many of the decisions that will lead to that, and she knows the how serious the consequences of her failure will be. We have seen recently (even just today) how vicious the bond market can be.

In short, I believe she was crying because of professional pressures (understandable ones, though largely of her own making, and about which I have little sympathy) and not nebulous 'personal' reasons.

If her parent or partner or child or grandparent or pet is ill the natural thing is to just say 'sorry, a close relative is in hospital and my emotions got the better of me'. Everybody would understand. You don't need huge reams of evidence but you need to give the bare bones of an explanation. She is trying to style it out but we can all see through it.

I will apologise if I'm wrong but long experience shows that 'personal reasons' almost always means 'I'm skiving or jobhunting' when a colleague in the workplace uses it to excuse their time off.

I believe it means even less when uttered by a politican.

No they haven’t @Blossomtoes but they should. And there are still Tory stronghold LA’s where state grammars have never disappeared, of course (and I’m very grateful for them).

She worked as an economist at the Bank of England 2000-2006. From 2006-2009 she worked for Halifax Bank of Scotland Retail banking arm. Initially in the mortgage department, later as Head of Business Planning in customer relations.

Does it show....contempt...I don't think so.

Yes it would be nice if she showed this level of empathy for the people she was proposing to cut benefits for...but she shouldn't resign for it.

Don't recall eg Nigel Lawson or Charles Osborne shedding a tear as they casually destroyed millions of lives. It's cool to be a sociopath if you are A - a bloke and B - a Tory.

Jeremy Corbyn sets up new Left-wing party.

Former Labour leader, expelled by Sir Keir Starmer five years ago, will co-lead new party with Zarah Sultana

GO JEZZA, GO!

Anything to help split the Labour Party, is a good thing.

In the primary school I teach, even my Year 4 class- that's eight and nine year old children, understand that 'fair' does not equal 'same.'
Of course the super rich should pay the most tax, but many don't- they use creative accountancy to get around what they morally and in many cases legally owe
And if someone's too poor to pay tax, unlike you, I think it's reasonable that they shouldn't.

@Abhannmor Who is Charles Osborne?

@Vinvertebrate you weren’t asking me to clarify anything, if you’d have read my post properly it would’ve been pretty clear. You just have an agenda and were shoehorning what you wanted to say in despite it not making sense in the context of what you were replying to 👍

Because it’s not just the student debt when you go to uni, it’s living costs. Some people simply cannot afford to take 3-5 years to go to uni and need to start working, whether for financial reasons or for caring responsibilities etc. despite what you’re implying life and peoples lives are more nuanced

Well said

People feel it’s not fair to finance, through their taxes, someone else’s life.

unfortunately no matter how a society is run there will always be poor people.

Taxes would be more palatable if it was felt we were all in it together, that a little bit of pain benefitted the whole of society would be easier to digest.
We need to get rid of the divisions, the othering and the feeling that it’s them and us. For some reason we can’t seem to get this right in the U.K. in this period of time.

Nordic countries often have higher taxes for everyone with lower starting tax exemption level, less bands and not high differences between rates.
i remember reading Helen Russell’s, ‘The Year of Living Danishly’
and whilst it may be out of date now was impressed with this. I use this as just one example, but I’d be all for this system that swimming pools were free for EVERYONE.

people feel like they are the horse, Boxer in George Orwell’s 1984; they are doing all the work.

The issue is tax and who pays it: British people often talk about great public services in places like Denmark. They do not vote for parties who propose policies like that. They vote on tax. In Denmark, the lowest paid workers do not have tax free allowances. Everyone pays tax across the board. Everyone. Yea the rich pay more, but you don’t have this system where no one contributes.

The UK has developed a totally skewed tax system. It builds resentment in higher rate payers. It’s not that they contribute the most. It’s that they are the contributors, full stop. If you get decent public services they mind less. But they’re not.

They do, more so now. Hence the pledge not to raise taxes which Labour will need to stick to.

It was an interesting book, remember the bit about the flags?

I was pretty young when I first read animal farm and admit to having a bit of a moment when Boxer was sent away by the pigs. It's a very effective allegory.

@quantumbutterfly yes! The neighbours quietly educating her in the etiquette of flying which flags which could be flown. The community Christmas party.
Yes, everyone should read animal farm (DOH! not 1984! But everyone should read that great work too!)

I watch Denmark with interest, they seem to be a functionally socialist monarchy(!), and are experiencing some of the same issues with social cohesion that the UK are.
'Miss Smillas Feeling for Snow' has some interesting vibes about the Denmark/Greenland relationship- as well as being an evocative read.

All the politicians seem inadequate and lightweight now.

I agree with you there, @smallglassbottle . There don't seem to be any great political thinkers any more. None of them could hold a candle to the likes of Butler, Gaitskell, Wilson, Heath. Gordon Brown was probably the last proper heavyweight to hold high office (and Robin Cook, RIP, he was proper smart).

I'm a lifelong Labour voter and member, and when I look at the Labour front bench, I just find myself thinking "Fuck, is this the best they can do?".

Then I look at the Tory front bench, and they're just as bad, but with even worse intentions.

And if someone's too poor to pay tax, unlike you, I think it's reasonable that they shouldn't.

This is where entitlement starts - that poor people should receive and have no responsibility to contribute at all. And if they don’t feel they are receiving enough then the ‘rich’ must contribute more.

The nuance is not where you think it is though - it is cultural. Middle classes have caring responsibilities too - my cousin went through medical school with two small children. Plenty of middle class medical students received no financial help from parents. Conversely, I have a friend who works in a school in an ex-mining village with multi-generational unemployment. The general belief is that education is mostly pointless (beyond its use for childcare), you don’t leave the village, and aspirations are to do what your parents do - live on benefits. To do otherwise is to disrespect your community and think you are better than them.

Most poor people don’t feel entitled, they’re too busy surviving.

People of working age whose earnings are below the income tax threshold do contribute, they pay NI (when earning over 240 quid a week) and they pay VAT.

If your middle class friends can care for someone full time and support themselves with 0 help from anyone through uni then that’s great. But since the rest of your reply is a nasty stereotype, I doubt they exist. I’m from an ex mining town and my parents told me how important education is so I didn’t end up in jobs like they were in and could have a better life.

Over 50% of UK individuals are net receipients - they receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes.

To do otherwise is to disrespect your community and think you are better than them.

I’m quite interested in how your friend surmised that this is a cultural belief in the village. Do they live in the village, is this something the local discuss with an outsider if they are so insular? As a social researcher I’m genuinely interested.