AIBU by saying it isn’t misogynistic to have a female villain in fiction?

[Historyguy]

I’d normally never post something like this on this forum, but I am writing a book and I don’t want to dedicate months of my time to just be called a misogynist.

Most of the protagonists are men, but they aren’t great guys either. They are former pirates lmao, not exactly known for being saints. The main villain is going to be a wealthy woman who actually existed in real life. Her name is Abigail Williams (she will be revealed to have still been alive), and she was one of the first accusers of witchcraft that eventually lead to the Salem Witch trials. In real life, she went missing. In my book, she’s alive and is now under investigation from British authorities on what she did.

She was literally only 12 when she did all that crap, but 12 is old enough to know not to lie in order to get someone killed.

I told people about this and they said that I won’t have a good time making a female villain in 2025 against a bunch of men, and I feel like they’re ignoring the point of my story. That nobody is the “good guy”, it’s literally bad men living in poverty against a sociopathic wealthy woman. AIBU?

Not even if it is misogyny? 🤣

Yes, it is all a bit baffling.

I write novels for a living, OP. Mostly set in the present, but my first novel was set in early 20thc Paris and the main character was an obsessive female stalker based on a real person, as was her ‘victim’. I drew on their actual correspondence in a museum archive. No one ‘cancelled’ me or the novel.

The one after that had as one of its main characters a teenage girl who gives a false witness statement to police which gets a local pervert wrongly suspected of murder. Likewise no cancellation.

The one that’s currently with my agent has a married female protagonist who starts an affair with a married man at her mother’s funeral. Agent hasn’t suggested I need to show her rescuing kittens to mollify readers.

The fact that you are asking this question suggests you don’t read much, which is concerning. I agree also with @PlasticAcrobat ‘s concerns about ways in which male writers have written female villains in deeply misogynistic ways. If you can’t grasp why a 12 year old girl in a deeply misogynistic society might have found herself in Abigail Williams’ position, I’d suggest you just make up a character. You have to understand all your characters for them to work.

And absolutely, writing novels is a big time commitment. And there’s never any guarantee that they’ll sell to an editor, or shift copies when out, or garner good reviews.

Things that constitute 'writing a book':

• Actually sitting down and writing it

Things that do not constitute 'writing a book':

• Fantasising about getting it published
• Talking to your friends about it
• Posting on forums about it
• Building elaborate scenarios in your head in which your book somehow attracts enough attention that you might be 'cancelled' for it

The character could very well be a misogynist, as many vile women are indeed. But I do not think the author is a misogynist for writting about it, and I do not think the public will call it so. I would not stop buying a book because it is about a young girl who hates some young women in her community, or all women in the world. So a misogynist. I do not think others would.....
Unfortunately, this is real enough. Surely we have all encountered a milder version of this girl/ woman?

The first answer was correct. However if it helps I don't think Gillian Flynn has been "cancelled"

You can’t write a book expecting people to argue it. When your book goes on sale you won’t be able to single-handedly address the reviews people leave or the conversations people have so if your idea is what you outlined, that’s your book! I write rom com and have people pick holes at times but they’re things me, my beta readers and my editors have already discussed and agreed (hopefully!!), and I just shrug them off and get back to writing. Best of luck!!

I think it depends on how the subject is treated. If she is a villain in other events that occur during the story or during the time she was missing and then the back story is part of a big reveal on how she got started down that path I think that would work. If she is the major villain for no reason other than events that happened when she was a 12 year old girl with no chance of redemption then that does read badly. I should add that I lived for a while a few miles from where the events of the Salem witch trials took place so am familiar with the local history and general sentiments around it.

Of course it isn’t.

You should provably read more if you think there is anything new or edgy about a villainess

Men are generally really bad about writing sex scenes about women. Please don’t do that , OP!

A 12 year old and the Salem Witch Trials sounds dubious but not the female villain (Gone Girl famously has a female villain) - the witch trials which were of course persecution of women being shown to be ‘correct’ about someone is a bold choice but if you can carry it off so be it - did the witch trials create a villain that might be a more interesting tale

Did they think having a female Gillian in general was misogynistic, or your portrayal of Abigail specifically? Because if the latter they may well have a point, it doesn’t sound like you have a very good understanding of the social context surrounding the witch trials and accusations

Have you ever read any fairy tales or folk tales, btw? Lots of female villains in those - evil Queens, wicked stepmothers, creepy old witches living in gingerbread houses or handing out poisoned apples, seducing poor innocent knights or chasing them across streams. Lots and lots of female villains. Minimal cancellation.

I’m going to refer to female gillians in future. They sound wonderfully sneaky. 😀

Has there ever been a memorable villain called Gillian?

Gillian McKeith.

No it's not. A 12 year old isn't a character that your audience are going to be sympathetic to though.

Just btw have you read the Pendle witches. I have a recollection that there was a young girl who accused the others of witchery. Your story sounds a bit samey on the face of it.

Oh, excellent point. Or should we say ‘Gillian ‘Forced by Advertising Standards to Stop Calling Herself Dr’ McKeith.

I’d probably read the hell out of a well-written novel about a demented Scottish pseudoscientist obsessed with scrutinising the contents of people’s loos and the colour of the back of their tongue (which represents the womb, or spleen, or something). It would clearly be called, with thanks to Ben Goldacre, That Awful Poo Lady.

Brilliant 😂

Would you mind giving your name and titles please? Sounds like books I would enjoy reading 😉

Im sure my phone has a life of its own, although we definitely need more evil Gillian, I can’t name a single one!

If you steal my character name idea for a book OP please dedicate it to me and send me a free copy