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Junior Doctors Unemployment in August

1000 replies

PurpleFairyLights · 17/05/2025 22:13

Name changed but long term poster. Have a child that is in this situation with 100k of student debt.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-07/bma-we-could-potentially-see-thousands-of-unemployed-doctors

Unbelievable this was allowed. Most countries protect their medical graduates.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
46
Rabidbunnyrabbit · 19/05/2025 14:04

I'm sorry but you reap what you sow. If you are going to worship at the the alter of diversity in all aspects (race, ethnicity, culture, background, beliefs, nationality etc.) you can't then complain when the individuals who can be described as diverse in their humanity show up and start competing for your or your family member's jobs.

It reeks of double standards. Rank hypocrisy. You like diversity and deplore racist/xenophobic attitudes, as is only right, but only until the person born a different nationally comes here looking for a career opportunity.

I'm all for diversity myself. I believe this country needs inwards migration of talent. However, I do recognise that will, with a high degree of certainty, mean there will be more competition for work, housing, education and so on. You can't have it both ways. Why should that extra competition stop once we get to the more lucrative traditionally middle-class careers? Do you think Johnny or Jenny Foreigner should limit their ambition to serving coffee, wiping bottoms and cleaning bogs?

Way too many attitudes on here amount to little more than politely rephrased "bloody foreigners, coming here taking our jobs". Nobody gave so much as one tiny shit when Bob or Betty down the local factory lost their job to cheaper migrant labour and found all the other vacancies similarly occupied. Noises of "unfair" are only being made now homegrown graduates are under threat of unemployment because international recruits are filling the positions they want.

My advice? Get used to the situation, just like the factory workers have had to.

W0tnow · 19/05/2025 14:10

Lol. Righto.

sparrowflewdown · 19/05/2025 14:15

Wow! @Rabidbunnyrabbit I am not sure where to start with that post.

OneMorePiece · 19/05/2025 14:40

No point dismissing the concerns raised here.

Unless the critics on here are private patients, as users of the NHS, these issues ultimately affect patients and the running of the NHS as a whole. Scratch that! Looks like there may be an impact on the private health sector too.

mumsneedwine · 19/05/2025 16:02

@OneMorePiece never ceases to amaze me that people don’t realise that their private doctors was trained in the NHS. If they can’t get to consultant level in NHS then there is no private care.

Watermelonices · 19/05/2025 16:16

Rabidbunnyrabbit · 19/05/2025 14:04

I'm sorry but you reap what you sow. If you are going to worship at the the alter of diversity in all aspects (race, ethnicity, culture, background, beliefs, nationality etc.) you can't then complain when the individuals who can be described as diverse in their humanity show up and start competing for your or your family member's jobs.

It reeks of double standards. Rank hypocrisy. You like diversity and deplore racist/xenophobic attitudes, as is only right, but only until the person born a different nationally comes here looking for a career opportunity.

I'm all for diversity myself. I believe this country needs inwards migration of talent. However, I do recognise that will, with a high degree of certainty, mean there will be more competition for work, housing, education and so on. You can't have it both ways. Why should that extra competition stop once we get to the more lucrative traditionally middle-class careers? Do you think Johnny or Jenny Foreigner should limit their ambition to serving coffee, wiping bottoms and cleaning bogs?

Way too many attitudes on here amount to little more than politely rephrased "bloody foreigners, coming here taking our jobs". Nobody gave so much as one tiny shit when Bob or Betty down the local factory lost their job to cheaper migrant labour and found all the other vacancies similarly occupied. Noises of "unfair" are only being made now homegrown graduates are under threat of unemployment because international recruits are filling the positions they want.

My advice? Get used to the situation, just like the factory workers have had to.

Wow you seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder and sound envious of the kids who have worked hard and taken on a huge debt to become the next generation of drs who we will all need one day.

As for Bob and Betty, my sympathy is equally with them too. No one should be in competition with foreign workers if there are uk staff who can do the job.

As for Jonny and Jenny foreigner I don’t think it is racist or xenophobic to believe that immigration is too high and should only be reserved for those specific roles where there are no options at all to recruit from the uk. If that means training more uk workers in specific industries so be it.

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 16:30

I started a similar thread a couple of months ago.

This is a huge issue. The scrapping of the Resident Market Labour Test means that the UK is the only comparable country that does not give preference to those already in the country. Throw in some exemptions from exams and some immigration incentives and the outlook for many of those finishing F2 this year is looking like a disaster.

Three main issues.

  1. entry level jobs (F3/locum contracts/house jobs) are often inundated with hundreds of applicants from overseas, some of whom will have the experience that newly qualified doctors in the UK need. Doctors recruited from overseas but who are now resident in the UK, and whose contracts have now come to an end, are also affected. Without resident priority, the job goes to the most experienced. Many overseas applicants will have support and mentoring from overseas recruitment agencies in terms of CV writing, alerts etc, something that those in the UK don't have access to.
  2. Training. There is a huge shortage of places, and over half go to those from overseas medical schools. There is now an arms race in terms of CV enhancements. Fine if (whether in the UK or overseas) you can take a year out to study for exams and take additional qualifications (some overseas training institutes actually provide two year training courses with that end). Or you are lucky enough to work in a London teaching hospital with lots of research going on or did a six year degree with something publishable in your intercalation year. Or if you are super focussed and determined and willing to give up any sembalnce of a work life balance. (Then you go on to be a GP who is advocating work-life balance to stressed out patients!)
  3. Young doctors who took jobs in Australia to avoid unemployment and who would to come home. This is becoming a serious problem and getting worse.

I was at an event where I got the chance to bend the ear of an MP. She was surprisingly receptive. A constituent had come into her surgery that morning with a daughter stuck in Australia, and she had been perplexed. Surely we had a doctor shortage. She was therefore interested to hear that it was a real problem with a specific cause.

Since then the MP (Aphra Brandeth) has tabled the following question

Question:
To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, what steps his Department is taking to help junior doctors find employment in the NHS after they have completed training. (46472)
Tabled on: 17 April 2025
Answer:
Karin Smyth:
Decisions about recruitment are matters for individual National Health Service employers. NHS trusts manage their recruitment at a local level, ensuring they have the right number of staff in place, with the right skill mix, to deliver safe and effective care.
We will ensure that the number of medical specialty training places meets the demands of the NHS in the future. NHS England will work with stakeholders to ensure that any growth is sustainable and focused in the service areas where need is greatest.
To reform the NHS and make it fit for the future, we have launched a 10-Year Health Plan as part of Government’s five long-term missions. Ensuring we have the right people, in the right places, with the right skills will be central to this vision. We will publish a refreshed workforce plan to deliver the transformed health service we will build over the next decade, and treat patients on time again.
The Government committed to recruiting over 1,000 recently qualified general practitioners (GPs) through an £82 million boost to the Additional Roles Reimbursement Scheme (ARRS) over 2024/25, as part of an initiative to secure the future pipeline of GPs, with over 1,000 doctors otherwise likely to graduate into unemployment in 2024/25. Data on the number of recently qualified GPs for which primary care networks are claiming reimbursement via the ARRS was published by NHS England on 7 April, and showed that since 1 October 2024, 1,503 GPs were recruited through the scheme.
Newly qualified GPs employed under the ARRS will continue to receive support under the scheme in the coming year as part of the 2025/26 contract. A number of changes have been confirmed to increase the flexibility of the ARRS. This includes GPs and practice nurses being included in the main ARRS funding pot, an uplift to the maximum reimbursable rate for GPs in the scheme, and no caps on the number of GPs that can be employed through the scheme.

My understanding is that MPs will often ask an initial question to get a Government response on record (in Hansard) and then follow up with more specific questions, and this is what the MP plans to do. I also understand that another MP is active on aspects of the problem, but have yet to look at his twitter.

Then yesterday I was introduced to someone who is involved in developing the NHS ten year plan, who confirmed that the issues I raised were correct, and indeed went on to effectively agree that there were some very powerful lobbies in both the BMA and GMC who were preventing these genuine concerns from being properly heard. (And to head off the inevitable MN cries of racism, this person was not British born. One irony of the argument that we should prioritise overseas doctors because of the debt we owe their predecessors is that many of the earlier generation now have DC who have gone through British medical schools and who are struggling to find work.)

I think this piece from a medical journal where members of a BMA panel complaining about "protectionism" from British resident junior doctors is interesting. Though about GPs specifically it rehearses the arguments, and perhaps suggests why decision making and representative bodies seem so paralysed. https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-training/gps-criticise-juniors-for-protectionist-policy-against-international-graduates/

My own DD is finishing F2 and has not got a job. Her Deanery is still on the old 2005 contract, so less good terms and money and no personal development time. All but one of her rotations has involved nights and she has been working very hard. She knew this. She chose the Deanery because she knew she would get a lot of good hands-on experience and responsibility, and then intending to spend an F3 gaining experience and applying for training. In some ways this has worked. The sort of medicine she had always thought she wanted to do is now close to the bottom of the list, replaced by something that I think suits her far better. The lack of accessible jobs has knocked her sideways, but eventually she decided that she would stick it out and rely on zero hours NHS bank work. Work is drying up rates are low and apparently you have to pay for your own insurance. Unfortunately there is now a particular problem as the regular locum she met whilst on placement has failed to get onto training, so it might be two of them competing for the same small amount of irregular work.

In her Deanery, ie several NHS trusts, DD is only aware of two F2s who have got training. For the rest nothing. This is starting to show through in terms of demoralisation so in her final placement there are only 3 F2s when there should be six.

A particular problem then is one of filling training places. The high flying Oxbridge type and overseas graduates who have invested large amounts of time and money into getting their training number don't want to work in the boondocks. Instead they will wait till something better turns up, or equally damaging, move to England half way through their six (or whatever) years. In one major speciality DD's Deanery eight out of the 16 training places are vacant. This means that Consultants are on call one night in four and that urgent referrals (for serious, life affecting conditions one of which can be slowed if treated early enough) are taking two years, with an eight year wait for non-urgent referrals. Two of the consultants wrote my daughter lovely notes saying she was a very good clinician with strong diagnostic skills. They are so short of staff, and though they have been given a Physicians Associate it is an area where you really need doctors. I am sure they would love to hire her or one of her equally able peers, but they can't. If they can create a short term contract to cover for one of the unfilled training positions, it will have to be open to worldwide applicants and probably go to someone without NHS experience, who will then probably move to somewhere more popular as soon as they can.

This policy is not just affecting young doctors and their families, it is impacting on the loads of other doctors and their ability to provide meaningful care. DD chose medicine because she wanted to treat people. So what do you say to the man who has been waiting eight years with a massive life affecting hernia - and no prospect of surgery anytime soon. It is getting to the point where she is wondering whether, though she loves the rural area she is in, she might be better off working in a functioning health service, albeing on the other side of the world. The evidence is that many of her more senior colleagues are thinking the same thing.

This is a real issue. A stupid, stupid waste of lives and taxpayer money. With more awareness, perhaps the Government will be forced to take action. Please write to your MP, the chair of your NHS trust, the Dean of your Medical School, etc. If we all chip away we will get somewhere.

GPs criticise juniors for 'protectionist policy' against international graduates

GP leaders have criticised BMA resident doctors for a 'protectionist policy' around speciality places, which disadvantages IMGs.

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-training/gps-criticise-juniors-for-protectionist-policy-against-international-graduates/

W0tnow · 19/05/2025 16:37

@Needmoresleep
Thanks. I have a question.

"who confirmed that the issues I raised were correct, and indeed went on to effectively agree that there were some very powerful lobbies in both the BMA and GMC who were preventing these genuine concerns from being properly heard."

Why??? The BMA are an association for the doctors, no? I don't understand why they would not be fully on the side of the UK trained doctors?

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 16:49

W0tnow · 19/05/2025 16:37

@Needmoresleep
Thanks. I have a question.

"who confirmed that the issues I raised were correct, and indeed went on to effectively agree that there were some very powerful lobbies in both the BMA and GMC who were preventing these genuine concerns from being properly heard."

Why??? The BMA are an association for the doctors, no? I don't understand why they would not be fully on the side of the UK trained doctors?

Did you read the linked article.

I have not read the full thread but the one I set up have a number of posters arguing strongly for the recruitment of overseas doctors even if it meant unemployment and lack of career progression for doctors resident in the UK. So you have one BMA committee, who feel the UK owes a debt to overseas trained doctors criticising another BMA committee who would like to see training priority for UK resident (as in living in the UK) doctors.

You can't have it both ways. If the government view that overseas trainined doctors are better (and this is a view held byt some on MN) then you close UK medical schools. What you don't do is allow the taxpayer to waste £350,000 and individuals to build up debt of £100,000 when most won';t get jobs. The current approach of expending medical school places is mad.

I would add that it is not just doctors. Nurses , midwives, paramedics and other HCPs are affected by the lifting of the RMLT. Yes there are shortages, but if we are to produce/keep our own doctors, nurses etc entry level jobs, the jobs newly qualified HCPs need in order to gain experience, must be protected.

Too many good, hard working and dedicated young people are having their hearts broken. From their perspective it feels as if the country does not value them.

Watermelonices · 19/05/2025 16:57

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 16:49

Did you read the linked article.

I have not read the full thread but the one I set up have a number of posters arguing strongly for the recruitment of overseas doctors even if it meant unemployment and lack of career progression for doctors resident in the UK. So you have one BMA committee, who feel the UK owes a debt to overseas trained doctors criticising another BMA committee who would like to see training priority for UK resident (as in living in the UK) doctors.

You can't have it both ways. If the government view that overseas trainined doctors are better (and this is a view held byt some on MN) then you close UK medical schools. What you don't do is allow the taxpayer to waste £350,000 and individuals to build up debt of £100,000 when most won';t get jobs. The current approach of expending medical school places is mad.

I would add that it is not just doctors. Nurses , midwives, paramedics and other HCPs are affected by the lifting of the RMLT. Yes there are shortages, but if we are to produce/keep our own doctors, nurses etc entry level jobs, the jobs newly qualified HCPs need in order to gain experience, must be protected.

Too many good, hard working and dedicated young people are having their hearts broken. From their perspective it feels as if the country does not value them.

Do any other parties have different views on this issue?

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 17:03

Watermelonices · 19/05/2025 16:57

Do any other parties have different views on this issue?

I am not sure it is a party political issue.

I don't know for sure but access to our jobs market is something that India has lobbied hard for. Boris lifted the RMLT for many health care professionals. Starmer has recently made further concessions that will affect other professions. (IT)

The only party I assume that might take a clear line might be Reform. I am not about to start alerting them. I would prefer the Government to sort it out first.

Blimeyblighty · 19/05/2025 17:17

W0tnow · 19/05/2025 16:37

@Needmoresleep
Thanks. I have a question.

"who confirmed that the issues I raised were correct, and indeed went on to effectively agree that there were some very powerful lobbies in both the BMA and GMC who were preventing these genuine concerns from being properly heard."

Why??? The BMA are an association for the doctors, no? I don't understand why they would not be fully on the side of the UK trained doctors?

a majority of the candidates for the headship of the RCPysch were IMG.

LeviOceanStar · 19/05/2025 17:24

The BMA don't seem to be a very effective trade union for British doctors. They have quite an odd agenda. No other country is shy about prioritising their own doctors for training posts.

LeviOceanStar · 19/05/2025 17:26

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 17:03

I am not sure it is a party political issue.

I don't know for sure but access to our jobs market is something that India has lobbied hard for. Boris lifted the RMLT for many health care professionals. Starmer has recently made further concessions that will affect other professions. (IT)

The only party I assume that might take a clear line might be Reform. I am not about to start alerting them. I would prefer the Government to sort it out first.

But Reform making political capital out of it would surely be the faster way to get the government to sit up and pay attention. One of the many benefits of living in a democracy!

W0tnow · 19/05/2025 17:27

Sorry, I didn't read it. I will do. I was just a bit stunned.

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 17:27

IMG is not really the issue. The concern is that doctors in the UK are disadvantaged when it comes to access to entry level jobs and to training.

A read through the BAPIO training academy gives an insight into the career path to NHS Resident level jobs that is available to those in India (two plus two programmes with the first two years in India) with nothing comparable for our F2s.

Australia will take our young people and give them work, but Australians come first when it comes to both popular jobs and to training.

OneMorePiece · 19/05/2025 17:28

mumsneedwine · 19/05/2025 16:02

@OneMorePiece never ceases to amaze me that people don’t realise that their private doctors was trained in the NHS. If they can’t get to consultant level in NHS then there is no private care.

Agree.

How's this for impact on the health sector here? For that lobby group to be at the heart of workforce planning, it sure has its benefits! How do our doctors and patients fit in this medical tourism model?

In their discussions about this partnership what consideration did they have for UK patients, the NHS and the UK private medical sector? Clarity is needed on this. I do wonder especially since their lucrative academy arrangements are potentially reducing training capacity for UK doctors and IMGs already here.

https://themedicaltravelcompany.com/blog/bta-tmtc-and-marengo-asia-hospitals-announce-global-partnership-for-medical-value-travel/

BTA, TMTC and Marengo Asia Hospitals Announce Global Partnership for Medical Value Travel

BTA, TMTC and Marengo Asia Hospitals Announce Global Partnership for Medical Value Travel BAPIO Training Academy (BTA), The Medical Travel Company (TMTC) and Marengo Asia Hospitals are delighted to announce that they have entered into a global partners...

https://themedicaltravelcompany.com/blog/bta-tmtc-and-marengo-asia-hospitals-announce-global-partnership-for-medical-value-travel/

PurpleFairyLights · 19/05/2025 17:39

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 16:30

I started a similar thread a couple of months ago.

This is a huge issue. The scrapping of the Resident Market Labour Test means that the UK is the only comparable country that does not give preference to those already in the country. Throw in some exemptions from exams and some immigration incentives and the outlook for many of those finishing F2 this year is looking like a disaster.

Three main issues.

  1. entry level jobs (F3/locum contracts/house jobs) are often inundated with hundreds of applicants from overseas, some of whom will have the experience that newly qualified doctors in the UK need. Doctors recruited from overseas but who are now resident in the UK, and whose contracts have now come to an end, are also affected. Without resident priority, the job goes to the most experienced. Many overseas applicants will have support and mentoring from overseas recruitment agencies in terms of CV writing, alerts etc, something that those in the UK don't have access to.
  2. Training. There is a huge shortage of places, and over half go to those from overseas medical schools. There is now an arms race in terms of CV enhancements. Fine if (whether in the UK or overseas) you can take a year out to study for exams and take additional qualifications (some overseas training institutes actually provide two year training courses with that end). Or you are lucky enough to work in a London teaching hospital with lots of research going on or did a six year degree with something publishable in your intercalation year. Or if you are super focussed and determined and willing to give up any sembalnce of a work life balance. (Then you go on to be a GP who is advocating work-life balance to stressed out patients!)
  3. Young doctors who took jobs in Australia to avoid unemployment and who would to come home. This is becoming a serious problem and getting worse.

I was at an event where I got the chance to bend the ear of an MP. She was surprisingly receptive. A constituent had come into her surgery that morning with a daughter stuck in Australia, and she had been perplexed. Surely we had a doctor shortage. She was therefore interested to hear that it was a real problem with a specific cause.

Since then the MP (Aphra Brandeth) has tabled the following question

Question:
To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, what steps his Department is taking to help junior doctors find employment in the NHS after they have completed training. (46472)
Tabled on: 17 April 2025
Answer:
Karin Smyth:
Decisions about recruitment are matters for individual National Health Service employers. NHS trusts manage their recruitment at a local level, ensuring they have the right number of staff in place, with the right skill mix, to deliver safe and effective care.
We will ensure that the number of medical specialty training places meets the demands of the NHS in the future. NHS England will work with stakeholders to ensure that any growth is sustainable and focused in the service areas where need is greatest.
To reform the NHS and make it fit for the future, we have launched a 10-Year Health Plan as part of Government’s five long-term missions. Ensuring we have the right people, in the right places, with the right skills will be central to this vision. We will publish a refreshed workforce plan to deliver the transformed health service we will build over the next decade, and treat patients on time again.
The Government committed to recruiting over 1,000 recently qualified general practitioners (GPs) through an £82 million boost to the Additional Roles Reimbursement Scheme (ARRS) over 2024/25, as part of an initiative to secure the future pipeline of GPs, with over 1,000 doctors otherwise likely to graduate into unemployment in 2024/25. Data on the number of recently qualified GPs for which primary care networks are claiming reimbursement via the ARRS was published by NHS England on 7 April, and showed that since 1 October 2024, 1,503 GPs were recruited through the scheme.
Newly qualified GPs employed under the ARRS will continue to receive support under the scheme in the coming year as part of the 2025/26 contract. A number of changes have been confirmed to increase the flexibility of the ARRS. This includes GPs and practice nurses being included in the main ARRS funding pot, an uplift to the maximum reimbursable rate for GPs in the scheme, and no caps on the number of GPs that can be employed through the scheme.

My understanding is that MPs will often ask an initial question to get a Government response on record (in Hansard) and then follow up with more specific questions, and this is what the MP plans to do. I also understand that another MP is active on aspects of the problem, but have yet to look at his twitter.

Then yesterday I was introduced to someone who is involved in developing the NHS ten year plan, who confirmed that the issues I raised were correct, and indeed went on to effectively agree that there were some very powerful lobbies in both the BMA and GMC who were preventing these genuine concerns from being properly heard. (And to head off the inevitable MN cries of racism, this person was not British born. One irony of the argument that we should prioritise overseas doctors because of the debt we owe their predecessors is that many of the earlier generation now have DC who have gone through British medical schools and who are struggling to find work.)

I think this piece from a medical journal where members of a BMA panel complaining about "protectionism" from British resident junior doctors is interesting. Though about GPs specifically it rehearses the arguments, and perhaps suggests why decision making and representative bodies seem so paralysed. https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-training/gps-criticise-juniors-for-protectionist-policy-against-international-graduates/

My own DD is finishing F2 and has not got a job. Her Deanery is still on the old 2005 contract, so less good terms and money and no personal development time. All but one of her rotations has involved nights and she has been working very hard. She knew this. She chose the Deanery because she knew she would get a lot of good hands-on experience and responsibility, and then intending to spend an F3 gaining experience and applying for training. In some ways this has worked. The sort of medicine she had always thought she wanted to do is now close to the bottom of the list, replaced by something that I think suits her far better. The lack of accessible jobs has knocked her sideways, but eventually she decided that she would stick it out and rely on zero hours NHS bank work. Work is drying up rates are low and apparently you have to pay for your own insurance. Unfortunately there is now a particular problem as the regular locum she met whilst on placement has failed to get onto training, so it might be two of them competing for the same small amount of irregular work.

In her Deanery, ie several NHS trusts, DD is only aware of two F2s who have got training. For the rest nothing. This is starting to show through in terms of demoralisation so in her final placement there are only 3 F2s when there should be six.

A particular problem then is one of filling training places. The high flying Oxbridge type and overseas graduates who have invested large amounts of time and money into getting their training number don't want to work in the boondocks. Instead they will wait till something better turns up, or equally damaging, move to England half way through their six (or whatever) years. In one major speciality DD's Deanery eight out of the 16 training places are vacant. This means that Consultants are on call one night in four and that urgent referrals (for serious, life affecting conditions one of which can be slowed if treated early enough) are taking two years, with an eight year wait for non-urgent referrals. Two of the consultants wrote my daughter lovely notes saying she was a very good clinician with strong diagnostic skills. They are so short of staff, and though they have been given a Physicians Associate it is an area where you really need doctors. I am sure they would love to hire her or one of her equally able peers, but they can't. If they can create a short term contract to cover for one of the unfilled training positions, it will have to be open to worldwide applicants and probably go to someone without NHS experience, who will then probably move to somewhere more popular as soon as they can.

This policy is not just affecting young doctors and their families, it is impacting on the loads of other doctors and their ability to provide meaningful care. DD chose medicine because she wanted to treat people. So what do you say to the man who has been waiting eight years with a massive life affecting hernia - and no prospect of surgery anytime soon. It is getting to the point where she is wondering whether, though she loves the rural area she is in, she might be better off working in a functioning health service, albeing on the other side of the world. The evidence is that many of her more senior colleagues are thinking the same thing.

This is a real issue. A stupid, stupid waste of lives and taxpayer money. With more awareness, perhaps the Government will be forced to take action. Please write to your MP, the chair of your NHS trust, the Dean of your Medical School, etc. If we all chip away we will get somewhere.

Thanks. Why was she asking about doctors getting jobs after completing training. That is a different problem to not getting a training post.

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 17:39

W0tnow · 19/05/2025 17:27

Sorry, I didn't read it. I will do. I was just a bit stunned.

Yes. I had originally though my daughter was being lazy or overly pessimistic. But then caught up with about half a dozen posters I remembered from the "applying to medical school threads". It turned out that all our DC were reporting the same nightmare. Huge competition for training, hundreds of applicants for fixed term locum jobs.

The earlier thread then threw up more horror stories, and both the MP I spoke to and my neighbour have tales of British doctors effectively stranded down under.

The really sad thing is my daughter is working in a part of the UK which has traditionally had major recruitment and retention problems. She is working alongside locals who would happily stay and build their careers there. Instead we are recruiting doctors from overseas via agencies who will quickly head elsewhere, either in the UK or once they have their NHS experience and British citizenship, to private medicine in Dubai or Singapore.

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 17:42

PurpleFairyLights · 19/05/2025 17:39

Thanks. Why was she asking about doctors getting jobs after completing training. That is a different problem to not getting a training post.

I suspect she meant F2. Part of the problem is laypeople (me!) understanding systems and processes. They are quite complicated.

If fairness it was a new issue to her till she spoke to her constituent, then me.

PurpleFairyLights · 19/05/2025 17:45

I have started a document but starting to get concerned that only Reform will listen.

OP posts:
PurpleFairyLights · 19/05/2025 17:46

Can anyone in the UK email MPs other than their own?

OP posts:
PurpleFairyLights · 19/05/2025 17:53

Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 17:42

I suspect she meant F2. Part of the problem is laypeople (me!) understanding systems and processes. They are quite complicated.

If fairness it was a new issue to her till she spoke to her constituent, then me.

Unfortunately I think her mistake may make people think spoilt doctors wanting a guaranteed job for life rather than doctors facing unemployment and risk having to leave the profession as unable to continue training.

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 19/05/2025 17:59

No, only your own.

However you can be creative and contact people with an interest, either in health care planning, or immigration and explain how the problem affecting you/your DC. I emailed my former MP, who I knew, and who had been elevated to the L9nds. She forwarded my email to a couple of good people.

LeviOceanStar · 19/05/2025 18:08

PurpleFairyLights · 19/05/2025 17:45

I have started a document but starting to get concerned that only Reform will listen.

Do you have an example letter I can adapt and send to my mp?

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