Childcare is not a dumping ground for the unemployable

[UnsolvedMysteriesRobertStack]

AIBU to feel frustrated with the new staff in childcare?

I don’t want to sound harsh, but I’m seeing more and more new staff who are simply not suited for childcare, and I’m wondering if they're being sent here because the job centre is forcing them into work. I'm talking about staff with complex ASD needs, and some who haven’t worked since their early 20s but are now being placed into jobs. There are staff who can't read or write, and they expect to just sit or tidy up all day. My colleagues and I are picking up the slack, feeling understaffed, and having to tiptoe around these situations. It’s never been this bad before.

Some staff won’t touch certain fruits due to sensory issues, can’t read a book, can’t communicate effectively, can’t lift, can’t change nappies, and struggle to talk to parents. And they’re all getting paid the same as the rest of us. I’m just wondering where these people are coming from, as it feels like there’s no industry standard anymore. It makes me feel like my qualifications and experience are being devalued. We’ve been patient, but the burden feels heavier each day.

OK, so you are talking about organised crime gangs defrauding the benefit system? We are at cross purposes then, as I thought you were one of these people who believe that individual PIP claimants are defrauding the system in sufficient numbers for it to be an issue.

"It's not literally just 'caring' as in changing nappies, comforting them and wiping noses etc."

Neither is working with adults with complex needs.

Another problem is immigrants who don't really speak the language in care sectors. My grandfather had carers who didn't understand him and couldn't make themselves understood. They accused him of being racist when he asked for someone who spoke English. The same in a friend's daughter's nursery. Two staff members hardly speak English. They are lovely girls and the children like them and if they only took care of babies that would be one thing but it's problematic that they can't read and stimulate the children's communication. But then again maybe care staff need to be paid more to attract qualified people ?

YANBU it’s unfair that other staff are having to pick up the slack and I wouldn’t want these people looking after my DC.

Same in the probation service. I see people joining us who have a UK degree but can't spell and are utterly shocked at having to work face to face with people who have committed serious offences. Government is so desperate for staff that they have reduced the entry requirements

There's absolutely no way on earth I would leave my child in a nursery. They are becoming increasingly untrustworthy and tragic "accidents" frighteningly frequent.

100% they do. They're highly regulated and have qualification conditions and they're not paid in line with those expectations. Starmer's government has made it even harder to pay a higher rate in social care by failing to exempt social care from the NI rises.

However responsible employers would ensure staff can communicate and complete paperwork.

Babies need to learn language too.

How would they do the paperwork for those babies though? How would they talk to the baby's parents about their day?

How would they know about allergy and health issues?

They don’t, it all falls on the few.

i’ve been present when an inadequate staff member told a parent that their baby had eaten all of their lunch that day. Then the lunch containers were collected up to go home, and each one was totally full. The child had had no lunch or had had someone else’s lunch.
I had a colleague who refused to feed babies whose bottles contained expressed breast milk which they said was disgusting. In fact I’ve had several of those colleagues

I have planned activities, made wall decorations, changed nappies, answered the phone and written reports x2 because my colleague refused. She was paid the same as me.

I am also hearing wider reports of younger people being more work shy. Obviously not all young people, there will be some very hard workers, but as a fairly consistent trend from all sectors.

I am actually surprised by this. As a nanny with over 20 years experience, level 2 in childcare ( 3 years nursery bank staff experience) i applied to loads of nurseries last year and was unsuccessful as they needed more experience and qualification.

Oh I didn't realise that. In Ireland you must have at least a Level 5 (which is currently a year's study with a module of work placement that you must pass too)

I've voted YABU, because you are blaming the wrong people for the frustrating situation you feel you are in.
This is entirely the fault of management/whoever has hired these people. It's not their fault!

The thread seems to have wandered off the point somewhat. There is a place for sensible, hard working staff who are good with the children but unqualified. However, qualified staff (level 3 and above) are required to lead and train them, to plan activities appropriate for the children and following their interests, to complete observations and monitor development, picking up any issues as early as possible, to liaise with parents (who may be anxious, demanding, have issues needing support), to support children with SEND etc. The problem is that the balance has tipped and we can't recruit L3 staff so we are lucky to have one per room, especially at the start and end of the day.

Why is this? Contrary to many posters opinions, nursery staff are not dim, drop outs, McDonald's rejects etc. In my nursery five of us have degrees and I recently completed an MA (with merit) in Early Years Education alongside working forty hours a week. Our apprentices must have GCSE English although the maths requirement has been dropped as otherwise even fewer would qualify (does this reflect the quality of maths teaching in schools?). Twenty percent of their hours are for study and they have to submit academic assignments as well as observed practice. They either work damned hard or drop out.

So why can we not recruit and retain qualified staff?

1. Pay - at L7 I earn £14.49 per hour and my company is one of the better payers. I could earn more cleaning at the local hospital (and indeed we lost a good staff member to precisely this job)
2. Expectations - as a pp said, we do SALT, physiotherapy, attention autism interventions etc. on top of our everyday work. Expected to work overtime most days with no notice, to update training on safeguarding, Prevent, food hygiene among others in our own time, to turn up to summer/ Christmas fairs and other events (unpaid), to do parents evenings after a ten hour shift, to come in early or stay late to meet parents or phone them at short notice. All this for the poor pay received.
3. Being perceived as stupid by the general public and condescended to by them and by parents, (most are pleasant, some are breathtakingly rude).

A previous poster said nursery work was their dream job but they wouldn't do it as they found out how low the pay is. As parents MNetters should consider whether they want educated, appropriately remunerated and respected professionals to care for and support the development of our youngest children, or whoever we can pull in off the street, which is where we are heading.

Apologies for the essay but there are hundreds of threads discussing issues of teacher recruitment and retention but little about the crisis in early years. This should be a much more prominent topic considering how many posters use nursery care.

The problem with pay is (for the under twos) parents have to pay for a third of staff cost and overheads for each child out of their own salary and not all parents are high earners. Many may not be earning much more than nursery staff and will be working for nothing, or less, to try and retain a career. I remember when I had children at nursery I was left with £50 per month which barely covered commuting costs. I am sure most parents would love to staff to be paid more and be better qualified but they can’t afford it from their salaries.

I had this issue when i was in my 20s i was looking for work but i was reluctant i was going through a bad time. My only place to live was my dads drug den it was horrible on my mental health living with a paranoid loony. I wanted a simple part time supermarket job to slowly ease me into work. So i could try and get on my feet.

I applied locally but nothing and the job centre kept applying the pressure .They arranged job interviews for me for places that were a hour long train ride away. I had childcare qualifications and hoped to go back one day but was not mentally ready. I was forced to go to a interview for a full time childcare job a hour train ride away and it took me a hour to cycle to a local train station from were i was living at the time. Then a 30min cycle from that train station ,so i was exhausted by the time i got there. I tried but couldn't cope ,subsequently i didn't go back to work for years after that experience .I have never worked in childcare again ,i used to love working with kids but the experience ruined it for me

I heard that nower days you dont need qualifications to work in childcare no wonder its gotten so much worst

Sorry to hear about your very tough experience, you were definitely up against it and you couldn't have tried any harder than you did 😔 Although it ruined your potential career in childcare, I hope what you do now is satisfying and well-paid 🙏

Sadly most people aren't willing enough to pay the tax that would be required to make the care sector a desirable place to work.

Who would want to work on minimum wage and all the unsociable hours that come with the care sector for any longer than they have to.

In my Local Authority area carers don't even get an enhanced rate for working weekends and vacancies do seem to be getting filled by people who want a stop gap job rather than a career.

I work in a secondary school in Scotland. I can confirm that absolutely nothing has changed with regard to girls’ low achievement/attendance ➡️ childcare path.
They are still being encouraged into it. And often they are the most behaviourally complex (and I’m sorry, not in a good way) girls in our school.
Do I think they’d be kind to the little ones? In fairness, absolutely. But dealing with parents, writing reports, building relationships with staff, punctuality and attendance … hmm, I’d have my doubts.

Unfortunately this ^ childcare has typically been seen as the easy option for people who can't work/no training/minimal skills.

It's more so that there was a brief period where qualifications & standards rose due to costs/family seeking better options/publicity around things like Montessori's/Kindergarten (get the theme of European style childcare with development)

I'm young enough to have attended full time childcare in the 90's/2000's & the standard was lowwwwww compared to my niece's & nephews

So if there's a shortage of staff or excess pressure on getting more kids in at lower prices I can see how they'd revert to the old set up

However if it's effecting your job you need to speak up. Request better support or a higher salary more akin to management

Also could you just cease doing your job. ? Make it clear to management due to the staffing issues you need to take a step back & focus purely on mental stuff/dealing with parents & reports with occasional reading ect. While the new staff deal with tidying & day to day socialising with the kids

If the standard drops they'll know they need you & you'll have far more leverage then if you just report your co-workers a few times

@arcticpandasit could be appropriate though in some areas to have much more diverse staffing. In my area, something like 45% of children are bilingual. How fucking terrifying to be a baby brought up in a Bangladeshi household to be passed to white people who don’t speak your language? There’s something very calming about being spoken to in your mother tongue even if you can speak English fluently. There’s also communication with the parents and cultural understanding.
I disagree with you about care work too. Old people don’t not get a free pass to discriminate any more than you or I do.

We need to encourage childminding more. Childminding from own homes tends to deliver better wages to the staff and cost less to parents.

A nursery is a terrifically expensive way to care for children due to the cost of buildings, and in many towns nurseries occupy buildings that used to be family homes.

Also the nursery sector attracts investors who are seeking profit. Lots will pretend they aren't but like care homes, its an area where private equity has taken root. An individual nursery may not look "profitable" on a standalone basis but the private equity investor will be scraping out profits via rents, service fees, interest costs, franchise or brand royalty fees etc. this means they make choices around staffing etc which are around reducing cost, not providing the best care to the DC. They pay as little as possible, so better quality workers are driven out of the sector.