Romesh Ranganathan - School Places & Entitlement

[FightingFish]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cewgj1ry9x7o.amp

I’ve seen this story popping up a lot on social media and we are only seeing one side of the story. Schools publish their allocations policy and apparently RR has moved house since his older children were allocated a place. He obviously didn’t consider the implications of moving outside of catchment at that point. There are only so many places, AIBU to wish that he would acknowledge that? I also feel sorry for the kid, if my father was a multi millionaire, I’d rather he shelled out on a place at a private school instead of bleat on about how hard done by he is!

A PP said they couldn't think why they would want their DC at different schools and that would be the same for most parents. So OK, not all parents. But in fact I know lots of parents who don’t agree.
Possible reasons:

• Wanting single-sex education
• School having a speciality that suits DC 1 but not DC 2 (maths, tech)
• SEN catered for at a specific school
• Academically focused school, again not suitable for different DC
• School with very strong drama or music offering that is only of interest to one DC
• School offering other specifics such as particular MFL, sporting facilities, strong textiles or art depts

My 3 DC are very different; one is very sporty, one is very keen on music and drama, one had an interest in a specific MFL, one has LD, one is ND, one is very keen on food tech, one is very academic in STEM, one is very academic in humanities ... (some of these apply to more than one!). So different schools might well have suited them.

Tho I agree it’s not unreasonable to want your DC to go to the same school. But if that is specifically important to you then you may need to make sure it happens.

Why do you think this? Genuine question, not trying to be goady. How could it be improved?

No, obviously not @privatenonamegiven. This is a thread about siblings isn't it?

Sorry I don’t agree with this. Schools publish their admissions policies. It used to be the norm that if a sibling attended the school then it was almost a cert the sibling would get in even if you’d moved. But that’s now not the case for most schools/academies. People could get their child in, move house out of the catchment and still expect a place in the old school then prevent someone living in the catchment area from going there. Schools are part of their community. They’re central to their community. If people secure a place in the preferred school for one child but then move away and assume they can still get the preferred school because of the legacy of the older sibling attending there….. sorry I don’t agree with this on principle. I didn’t attend the same school as my sibling. It’s done us or our parents no harm. Simply I had a much longer journey to school than my sibling. It was fine. He moved out of catchment, didn’t check the admissions policy and assumed they would get a place by default. He was wrong. It is unusual for a parent not to get any of their three choices. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. But LAs do try to give one of the three choices if possible. Perhaps he put down schools they had no hope of getting in to. He can appeal. Or go on the waiting list. There’s a lot of movement between now and the start of term so he might get lucky.

This is why the system is so problematic as everyone wants different things there are always going to be unhappy parents..I wish sometimes we did not have preferences and children were allocated by the local authority automatically. We wouldn't have to bother with all those ridiculous open events which in my experience were a waste of time..

Well fair or not, the entire reason for admissions criteria and rules is to make it transparent for everyone.
I think it's ill judged to make a public fuss when the rules are applied to all. Why should an out of catchment get a preference over an in catchment child?

I think people are reaching to attack him because they hate the idea of someone they view as rich or successful moaning about anything but to not get into any of your 4 school choices is crazy and he’s within his right to talk about it.

Yeh funnily enough @privatenonamegiven our DC did all go to the same secondary, as DH and I decided for a number of reasons (mostly our own experience as schoolchildren with along commute) that local trumped everything, as long as it answered most wants (which it pretty much did). It may be that school B or school C would have suited DD or DS2 in other ways, but we really wanted to avoid a long walk/bus/walk type deal.

@Sofiewoo why is it crazy tho? We don’t know what those prefs were. But I could have listed four very high-performing schools in my city or the next village and my DC would not have got into any of them, as we are further away than all the DC who did get in. That's not crazy. Why should my DC get into a wonderful school ahead of children who live just a mile away? If I like it that much I should move closer to it.

I’ve never come across a school with a fixed catchment. It’s definitely not a thing in London.

Beh, I’m with Romesh on this one. Rules should be there to make education easy for both children and parents.
It makes no sense whatsoever for parents to have to run around from one school to another, with kids in tow - let alone from one part of the city to another.
It is irrelevant whether the parents could afford to go private.
And if you do go private to guarantee you have choice, then as of Jan this year you are also subject to 20% VAT.
The whole thing is designed in such a way to make life exceedingly hard for families, and keeps women at home even when they’d quite like to go back to work.

I’m in London and there is at least one school near me with a fixed catchment - they call it a “priority area” and kids living in it get priority over those outside it. The area is the same every year.

So what do you think schools that are full should do? Just let everyone who wants a place in? Schools have a limit on places for a reason.

This happened to a friend of mine (we're in NI) after she moved house. Her 1st son was in a very good primary that had catchment area as part of its admissions criteria (not all schools here do).
The family were now just outside the area for her 2nd son, so she moved her older child to the school her youngest was starting in.
She wasn't that happy with the new school or the move, but she was a very poor mature nursing student at the time, and didn't have much choice.
RR needs to suck it up & stop complaining.

He's still has a right to complain about the state school system, even if he has money. Saying he should just pay for private school is a bit of a silly thing to say. Maybe he doesn't agree with rich people paying for private education and that state schools should be just as good.

I thought having a sibling at a school Trumps everything else really. How would that work otherwise? It's mad to force siblings to go to different schools.

In my area of London, a very high percentage of secondary schools are single sex. So there is no such thing as an automatic sibling place in these schools anyway! Funnily enough, everyone survives.

Tower Hamlets (which is in London) has fixed catchment areas.

I thought having a sibling at a school trumps everything else really. How would that work otherwise? It's mad to force siblings to go to different schools.

Really tho? so at a secondary school (which 11yo+ can make their own way to, so no need for anyone to take them) the younger sibling of a pupil, who now lives 6 miles away, gets a place above a child with no sibling who lives half a mile away? That really wouldn't be fair, surely?

London is high density.

In rural areas, catchments mean that children living in villages have a chance at a "local" school.

My children's school catchment extends nearly 7 miles in some directions taking in farms and villages, but in another direction the school fields hit the catchment boundary. But there's another school about a mile and a half away in that direction. (Whose catchment covers other villages)

yeh same. There is a school near me whose actual catchment includes some far-flung villages, say 4 miles away (as otherwise DC would have to travel 10 miles +) but not some other villages/bits of the city which, while closer (say a mile or two), are served by other schools.

I’m in Scotland. We have fixed catchments. You can make a placing request to a non-catchment school but will only be offered it if there is space once catchment kids are allocated (and often some spaces are reserved for children moving into catchment). There is priority rankings for placing requests with out of catchment siblings near the top. If you are in catchment and apply on time for S1 or P1 you are pretty much guaranteed a catchment place (never heard anyone not get one) and the number of classes increases or decreases to reflect numbers of catchment kids. Much more straightforward.

He’s entitled to publicly complain about anything he likes, just like anyone else.

The local education authority is unlikely to deviate from its processes, so it’s not like he’ll get preferential treatment for being famous or wealthy. Nor should he. But he’s entitled to appeal, as anyone is. And his child may still eventually be offered a place if they’re on the waiting list.

If his child wasn’t likely to be in the catchment for all four schools they chose, it’s likely they won’t get offered any of their choices. That’s why it’s best to put realistic options.

Maybe he’s against private education as a matter of principle, as are many other people. I believe Paul McCartney’s kids went to state schools.

School admissions policy is a tough one. I’m a great believer kids should attend their local community school, so they can walk there and their school friends live nearby in the local community. So, IMHO living in the catchment area should come first. However, it’s a pain if you move outside and then siblings have to attend different schools. But not the end of the world because the eldest can and should travel to school on their own once teenagers, unless it’s a rural area with no buses.

And giving priority to siblings can be unfair because, for oversubscribed schools, it can allow families to game the system by moving into the catchment area for a few years to get their eldest into the school, then move to a preferable (e.g. cheaper) area and take advantage of sibling priority for subsequent kids. While kids who live nearby lose out.

There are families travelling over 2 hrs across London because they’ve been moved to temporary accommodation out of borough on the other side of the city. Takes hours on several buses.

I saw his video on Instagram - his main complaint was having not got any of his 4 choices - that they were finding it impossible to get a reply to his emails or telephone calls. He also asked if other people were in the same position. I think the suggestion he was using his status to try and get them to change their minds is entirely erroneous.

Oh, definitely. And deeply offensive when it's somebody effectively saying you have personally broken the Law/are corrupt.

Seriously, when there has been somewhere in the region of thirty thousand separate data points checked in a 15 working day period that also encompasses three data drops, two parents' evenings and mock exams, people who have genuinely exceptional circumstances have been handheld, guided through the process and additional evidence has been obtained on their behalf and then everything has been checked and subsequently robustly challenged, there is no way some entitled knobsworth is going to get a place for their kid because they've shouted at the Receptionist that they know their rights or that they're personal friends of the Deputy Head (who doesn't know them from Adam).

That too, but I was thinking parents who think THEY got THEIR own place because they turned everyone else down/spoke to the headteacher/danced naked on the playing field under a full moon and then tell other parents that was the ‘secret’ of their success,