To be annoyed that vegan options have replaced vegetarian?

[Sacredhandbag]

It's only a silly gripe in the grand scheme of things but it's bloody annoying.

I've been a vegetarian my whole life but since veganism has become more popular and more and more people are becoming part of the movement (and good on them!) it's like restaurants, cafes and hotels have skipped adding vegetarian options and thought "well vegan options covers both so we'll just add a few of those"

No! I am not vegan. I am vegetarian. I still want my eggs, my cream, my cheese, my butter. I want a stilton and broccoli bake, not a grilled bit of cauliflower!

Afternoon tea (I'm a fan and have one as often as I can) is the worst for it. There's an ordinary menu and then there's a vegan menu and that's it. You order one or the other. I don't want chicken or fish sandwiches but I sure as hell want my scones with proper clotted cream! So I have to be specific about the sandwiches and say I want some from one menu and some from the other. Bloody annoying.

Any other veggies feel the same?

Not vegans. In general.

Nah, will just think about how tasty cheese is

Or probably just wanted to eat meat. I've been vegetarian for 33 years. There's always options, though it takes a bit more effort in recent years. It's a commitment. Saying there's no veggie options is just an excuse.

Some vegans on this thread are the perfect example of how to make people not want to be associated with that group. They are, indeed, encouraging people to not care and go back to being omnivores. Nothing wrong with that, but I bet that's not what they intended.

And all this "you can cook with pulses", as if all omnivores survived on hamburgers and bacon. I cook pulses all the time. Delicious, healthy, lentil and chickpea stews, with loads of veggies. And chorizo. And chicken. And beef. And fish. Pulses were part of the healthiest (omnivore) diets for millenia before vegans appropriated them as if they had just discovered them.

Go preach to someone who likes been preached to. Which is, no one.

People like those vegans have no interest in saving animals' lives, just in being the centre of attention.They are titring, and annoying as fuck. And won't win anyone to their side.

Going back to the OP, yes, vegan options have slowly replaced vegetarian option, and it's a pity, because in every single place I've tried them (yes, omnivores can also eat veggie if they so choose) the vegan option has always been worse.

I'd be more than happy to go to a vegan cafe or restaurant, but I don't want to eat a plant-based pre-packaged burger or fake cheese. Fake bacon in vile.

The pious vegans on this thread completely put me off being a vegan.

Genuinely, this really confuses me. Some vegans being people you don't approve of puts you off being vegan?

Why? 'I won't buy those shoes because someone I don't like wears them'
'I won't believe in God because some Christians are awful'
'I won't get a dog even though I want one because some dog owners are inconsiderate or cheeky'.

I can't make sense of it?

Not anything to do with veganism or being/not being one but why would anyone think like that about any belief or group of people?

The overwhelming message on this thread is that people are eating in places that are not cooking fresh to order. So by default the food is poor, likely bought in frozen and bunged in a microwave or fryer. I can't imagine the meat options are great either. That is why the servers and the 'chefs' have no clue what the ingredients are in any meal. They don't cook them. They probably aren't actually chefs.

Please support actual restaurants, where qualified chefs take a pride in the dishes they prepare and know exactly what is in every dish they plate. Please understand that this will cost you more because it is more expensive to pay a qualified chef to prepare food from scratch than it is to give someone NMW to use a microwave. It is also more expensive to buy raw ingredients from local producers than catering sized bags of frozen whatever.

A PP commented up thread that independent restaurants local to them are closing down, and that sadly is an industry experience. Read the reviews for any decent restaurant online and there will be the usual 'far too expensive, rip off, I can get a much bigger meal for much less money at the pub' comments. You get what you you pay for. If you want decent vegetarian, vegan, meat or fish meal go somewhere that doesn't reheat from frozen and pay more for it. If you want a cheap meal accept the lack of choice.

Actually the chefs do bloody know. The imported dishes ready made list every single ingredient. A book should be kept for all to access. When my son waited on if anyone asked he could check in the book, even show it to the customer if necessary.

Freshly made in the kitchen the chef might play around with the recipe though, tweaking and improving.

Traceability is taken very seriously in the UK.

Sadly I wish this was true.

One of the worst vegan meals I've had was at a Michelin star restaurant. A totally tasteless butternut squash risotto. I'm sure the chef hadn't bothered to add any seasoning at all to it.

A pub we visit regularly( and cooks from fresh other than desserts) frequently has mushrooms in garlic sauce as the veggie starter followed by mushroom stroganoff as the veggie main.

Vegan - you get a pizza and I hate pizza.

I like mushrooms and separately both dishes are fine but tough if you don't want mushrooms for the starter and main course or don't like them. My mushroom hating children don't come with us now and I always skip the starter. And yes I have mentioned it and things improved for a few weeks. Now the dreaded combo is back.

Sorry, I don't think that's the overwhelming message at all. I've been to very good, independent restaurants that have only one vegan option which is supposed to be for vegetarians too. As a vegetarian eating out, I want to indulge in dishes with cheese and cream! It's not only the poor, cheap restaurants that do this. Many excellent restaurants want to make life easier for themselves by creating one dish that is vegan/vegetarian and gluten free at the same time. They lump us all together, but maybe someone who needs to eat gluten free food doesn't want to have a vegan meal.

@AnnWalkersLeftSlipper , who said I didn't approve of them? I just don't want to be hectored about my food choices, or to be accused of not caring about animals or the environment.

I didn't say anything about shoes, Christians or dog owners.

You do sound confused but that isn't my problem.

Yes, and as I explained upthread this is because the really tiny margins restaurants are operating on means they cannot carry the range of dishes you want because they will lose money due to the waste. A good independent will however flex a dish for you, or with notice provide more choice. We have catered for fully vegetarian and also vegan weddings. However our standard menu cannot carry separate vegetarian, vegan, GF etc items. It just isn't an option financially.

It isn't about restaurants making life easier for themselves. That's a very unfair comment. As a customer you don't see the work behind scenes developing and costing menus. Analysing sales. Checking margins. Everything runs on a knife edge. It is a really tough industry right now.

Never in a million years will I ever go vegan

Ok and I'm sorry to have offended you. I do understand this. I suppose that at home I often cook vegan recipes then adapt them very easily to make it a vegetarian dish (maybe by adding cheese or a creamy sauce or an egg for example). I do this all the time. For example, I make vegan enchiladas with lots of vegetables, beans etc and guacamole on the side. Delicious. However, if I'm not in a vegan mood I'll add cheese and sour cream to the dish. I would have thought restaurants could have a vegan base for a meal and adapt it for vegetarians, quite cheaply and easily.
I feel a lot of sympathy for restaurants but they're providing a service and need to provide options that people want to eat. If you're a vegetarian on a tight budget, going out for dinner is real extravagance and a treat. It can be quite deflating to get somewhere and see the only option is a cauliflower steak or something.
It's certainly not all restaurants. Indian restaurants and Italian restaurants are particularly good for vegans and vegetarians (catering for both separately).
There are many vegetarians on this thread who are frustrated and I've met many vegetarians in real life who don't bother to eat out because of this. If restaurants are on such tight margins they need to be careful not to lose customers. They should be doing all they can to attract people.

I eat out only in Indian, Sri Lankan, Thai, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Greek and occasionally Italian restaurants because they understand veggie food means vegetables. But even these have off days

I would have thought restaurants could have a vegan base for a meal and adapt it for vegetarians, quite cheaply and easily.

Many places tried it and substitutions can confuse kitchen in busy times and bigger issue si people simply not reading properly. Eg you have vegan stew VE, you can add grilled halloumi V. You get people who will order it and then claim it wasn't made clear it wasn't VE halloumi 🤷 At best you have pisses off vegan, at worse someone with intolerance. I worked in industry long enough to know that something happens to many people once they cross a threshold and their brain switches off (similar for retail). I bad people scream at me that "Chili Chicken Wings" were spicy🤷 That's one of my faves

Noooooooooooo not cauliflower steak. I'd send it back to the kitchen as unfit for human consumption.

@SallyWD It's ok, I'm not offended. It's a hard point to get across to anyone not in the industry and I get your frustration. Not running an extensive vegetarian menu doesn't reduce our footfall but it does reduce our wastage. Everything is a business decision.

Not my experience at all unfortunately. In fact it could be said to be quite the opposite. Wetherspoons for example (cheapest of the cheap) has a lot of both vegan and veg dishes, with and without faux meat-and greasy spoon type places often have a lot of vegetarian options.

😂😂I've seen a lot of 'misses the point' posts on here but this is hilarious!

Agree though I am neither vegan nor vegetarian. But sometimes I want a meatless/fishless course, but I do not want grilled cauliflower bake. Infuriating.

>> If you want decent vegetarian, vegan, meat or fish meal go somewhere that doesn't reheat from frozen and pay more for it. If you want a cheap meal accept the lack of choice.

When I pick the restaurant that's fine, there are some very good places offering interesting veggie/vegan food. But if its a works do, or an unplanned thing, or even my dad wants to take me out then we're basically heading to a chain pub style thing or a garden centre because that's what he likes (although in fairness I had a great veggie option at the garden centre the other week) .

All I am asking, really, ALL, is that the vegan burger option in those places is a beanburger or otherwise vegetable based one and not fake meat. Same freezer space, same sides, same menu. If I want fine/really enjoyable dining, then yes I will pay more somewhere that can afford to spend more to give me better options.

Its really interesting that so many of the people complaining on this thread are consumers, and not running a tea shop, café or restaurant. If you'd ever worked on one you wouldn't have to ask the question.

If they offer a vegetarian menu there's the risk one of the items will offend someone. The most common question has to be ''does the cheese contain animal rennet? How do you know, do you check?'' It doesn't matter how many options they offer, someone will complain they aren't being catered to, and argue; and the staff just don't have the time or the expertise to manage the expectations of every single customer.

This thread is making me just note more than ever that a lot of people just want different things. If somewhere I frequented changed their faux meat burger to a bean burger or similar, they'd lose my custom-I had enough o' those buggers in the 90s, thank you.

If you want decent vegetarian, vegan, meat or fish meal go somewhere that doesn't reheat from frozen and pay more for it. If you want a cheap meal accept the lack of choice.

That's not necessarily true. For example I went to an independent restaurant with DH last month. I wanted steak which was fine, but there was only one choice of sauce which I couldn't have. I've never found that going to a 'cheaper' restaurant, there's always a choice.