Employers hell bent on working in the office full time

[NewDayNewLife25]

Anyone else currently job searching and noticed the same thing?

I'm utterly miserable in my current role which is unfortunate as I've been there for 4 years and use to love it, but a new manager has changed things. I've always worked from home.

Anyway, I've been applying for jobs, mainly remote/hybrid working but also a few office based roles. I always state in my cover letter what I'm looking for, and my address is on my CV too.

A few employers have contacted me, saying that I'm perfect for the role, have all the experience/skills that's required and that they think I would make a great addition to the team. But as soon as I've asked about the working set up, that's it, done. They won't entertain it and decline my application.

I just think it's a shame. I know that they probably have plenty of applications, but surely it's more important to hire the right person, with the right skills and experience. Not just because that person happens to live near the office. Half the time they can't even explain why they need the person in the office. Is it control?

I'm fed up already!

You have no idea whether or not they have found the right person for the role, or what they are or are not prioritising, or whether they can keep staff.

There is a fair chance that they have applications from others who have all of your skills and are happy to be in the office.

If they don't, then it is up to the company to get to a point where they review their approach and make a decision. If they don't do that, then if what you say is true, there will be a natural consequence and the business will fail, so why do you care?

Let's just wait for that to happen and in the meantime go and apply for a remote/ hybrid role and let others do what they want to do.

If you are correct then we will see all office working naturally collapse anyway, because everyone will refuse to do it and all businesses requiring it will fail.

It may be easier for you to work from home and I get that, but it is not an automatic right for you to be able to do that. The jobs market is not as buoyant as it once was especially with the national insurance increase. Jobs are becoming more scarce and you may have no choice but to return to the office

There's a risk of thinking that because you don't need to be in the office to do your work, there's no reason to be there, and ignoring the effect on other people. DH's company did not have to go back into the office after lockdown, which suited lots of them, but the guy who lived alone actually preferred to go to work, although it was still pretty lonely if nobody else was in. DH used to go in once a week to provide him with some company. I think it can be tough for young people starting in the workplace if everything is hybrid or wfh; not impossible, but harder. Being in the office usually gives lots more support and informal learning from colleagues.

Ten years ago, you'd have been thrilled to find any company that didn't expect you to be in the office most of the time. Obviously lockdowns changed that, and I think many companies are still trying to work out what the optimum balance is.

In many cases it's not just because of collaboration and increased productivity (although employers love to use those reasons) but because they have long office leases and catering contracts that can't easily or cheaply be changed and it's difficult to sub-let floors in office buildings due to clauses in the contract with the landlord and declining demand. These costs need to be justified and having offices half empty is not a good way to do that.

Also, most employers will have a policy around hybrid working so it won't be up to the hiring managers. I could find the perfect candidate and unless they are prepared to comply with our 40% in-office policy I can't hire them.

Same. Its a nightmare trying to concentrate when Jenny and Alan are doing the rounds for the lottery syndicate, Beth is constantly at your desk to chat about MAFS and Brian realises there's a woman nearby and expects her to "just pop into this meeting and do the minutes" even though it's not your job, and if you weren't in that day he would have otherwise coped.

Then there's the constant "what you having for tea? Have you got a holiday booked?" Radio blaring, someone's got three electric heaters blaring under their desk and Keith has chosen to sit opposite you and you know he picks his nose and eats it.

Like with everything there are good employers and bad employers. Just like there will be employees that absolutely rip the p**s when 'wfh' whilst others work just as effectively.

My employer tried remote/hybrid working for a while but honestly we were collectively less productive and most found it frustrating compared to when we were all in the office. Remote working didn't work for us but my employer has been very flexibile and accommodating in other aspects of our working life.

YABU to expect roles advertised as office to accommodate WFH/Hybrid.

YANBU to want to find a role that meets your needs/wants in terms of WFH /hybrid.

And that message was definitely a generic recruiter message. I flagged my CV as looking for work on a website to put the feelers out and received 6 or 7 messages just like it.

@SapphOhNo it's not a generic email, I've worked in recruitment for many years. But thanks.

Spot on. Too many people taking the p* with WFH. There have been multiple threads re this so I won't repeat my views. But the big question is why don't you want to go into office?

@SapphOhNo also, where did I say I expect them to accommodate working from home? I simply applied and stated I was looking for hybrid working if possible, not demanded.

So instead of just writing hybrid they could explain what it means to this specific role. Coming to office 3 days a week? Can wfh once a month if it has been cleared with thw manager after submitting a plan for the day. Something in between. It has a massive effect on what location to apply.

@Praying4Peace I'm not repeating myself either, read the thread. Why do I need to be in the office?

How can you still stick to your guns over then when many others on the thread have had the same email (me included)?!

Working in recruitment for many years doesn’t mean you are right by default.

Just focus your applications on hybrid roles. Maybe even the specialty office/WFH split you want.

We're minimum 60% in the office, and it works well. I don't think we would entertain hiring someone who wanted 20-40%. It just wouldn't work with the team dynamic.

*specific

@JimHalpertsWife Where's your office located? 1992?

I've had those kind of emails when I haven't even actually applied for a job.

I would say don't worry about the ones that pass you by and concentrate on finding the right fit for you.

However, it's clear that there is a huge push from employers to go back to an office model so there will be fewer options for those who need or desire hybrid. It's regressive, it's sexist, it's very bad for anyone with disabilities. But white men make the decisions, and they love to make them in their own image

@Smithhy why are you so concerned about this email? Why are we still talking about the email? Move on.

I know you are insistent that it isn't generic, but I regularly get those kind of speculative messages via LinkedIn saying things like I came across your profile. If they are saying they came across your CV, how can it be directly related to a job you have applied for? They would not have 'come across your CV' if you sent it to them as an application.

My job is fully remote and I have no intention to change that. But, if I had to look for another job now, I would not even mention my desire for home/hybrid working until I have them sold on me being the best candidate for the role. Then I am in a position to negotiate. Before that, I am just another candidate.

I understand why employees love it so much but there is no doubt that WFH has had a massively negative impact on productivity and the economy. Companies are wising up to this now and they know they need to switch back, at least on a hybrid basis, before it's too late.

Unless you were taken on on the explicit understanding (written into your contract) that your position was completely or mostly WFH, then you will just have to suck it up or resign.

You say surely the most important thing is that companies hire the right person for the job. Of course it is. What you are failing to grasp here is that, to them, one of the most important qualities in being that 'right person' is the willingness to be office based.

because the job is based there?

We're all wrong apparently!

@FindusMakesPancakes why are you so insistent on knocking people's confidence and trying to make them believe that they're shit and not worthy?

@mummyh2016 but I don't have to accept the job.

That just wouldn't work in some industries where roles are really oversubscribed. Employers can afford to set working arrangements and they do.

If a candidate doesn't want to adhere to our minimum 60% in the office rule, they wouldn't be hired. We'd have our pick of 100's of others though.

I have to say I have never seen anyone challenge the rule and most people actually do 80% (ie 4 days in the office) by choice.