Employers hell bent on working in the office full time

[NewDayNewLife25]

Anyone else currently job searching and noticed the same thing?

I'm utterly miserable in my current role which is unfortunate as I've been there for 4 years and use to love it, but a new manager has changed things. I've always worked from home.

Anyway, I've been applying for jobs, mainly remote/hybrid working but also a few office based roles. I always state in my cover letter what I'm looking for, and my address is on my CV too.

A few employers have contacted me, saying that I'm perfect for the role, have all the experience/skills that's required and that they think I would make a great addition to the team. But as soon as I've asked about the working set up, that's it, done. They won't entertain it and decline my application.

I just think it's a shame. I know that they probably have plenty of applications, but surely it's more important to hire the right person, with the right skills and experience. Not just because that person happens to live near the office. Half the time they can't even explain why they need the person in the office. Is it control?

I'm fed up already!

Really??? Unbelievable comment.

I don’t claim that my experience applies to everyone or that hard work alone guarantees success. I know circumstances can differ massively. That said, I don’t think it’s wrong to share my story and show what is possible.

Acknowledging success doesn’t diminish the struggles of others. I’m not dismissing anyone’s challenges I’m speaking from my own experience.

It’s possible to acknowledge both effort and circumstance without making it a competition or being butt hurt because maybe it hit a nerve.

I despair of people who want to wallow in self pity. My life hasn’t turned out well, it’s not been easy at all, but I’ve just adapted and got on with it. Maybe it’s actually you that needs to learn about empathy.

There is a huge, huge difference between not making it and 'not wallowing in self pity'. Your post comes across as incredibly self-congratulatory. Maybe you didn't intend it that way, but it does. It is absolutely unrealistic to think that the support currently in place via Access to Work is enough. It is utterly unrealistic to think that businesses need to up their game and learn flexibility (and that does include hybrid working/WFH) if they want to be genuinely inclusive for people with disabilities and health conditions. It would have been helpful if you had advocated for this instead of dismissing all the people who aren't going to make it like you have with 'well, they're wallowing in self pity and Access to Work is enough'.

Cool story bro.

@pointythings Okay, so what have I had that you haven’t that’s enable me to adapt but you can’t?

Thank you 🤩

I agree. What is it with these entitled people who think the workplace should revolve around them and their wants? If they don't like their current workplace then they need to look for another job. The business paying the wages holds all the cards, it's about time some people realised that (instead of thinking they are so important that they should be able to dictate the terms of their employment).

It does not come across “that” way at all

Why wouldn't they? I'm a brilliant teacher but I could definitely do with the benefits of a WFH job! Unrealistic in teaching though (as covid has shown). The lack of WFH opportunities in teaching compared to other sectors is making teaching less attractive though in general.

Productivity (I think) is determined to a great degree by how much people enjoy what they do. And that I also think is determined by how much management makes work fun. When my partners and I started a business years ago we tried to make sure everyone had a good time. We used to take everyone out for lunch if it was someone's birthday. Then as the biz got bigger we did it once a month. Our aim was that good people would hear we were a great place to work and want to join us.

I think the factor you may not be accounting for is that there may be more than one applicant with the required skills and experience- I.e. more than one excellent candidate. Unless you are in an incredibly niche field, it is quite possible that this is the case. Even then, you would assume if you were the only suitable candidate available and working in the office was really only a preference (rather than an absolute requirement) that they would compromise, surely? Either that or they aren’t bothered about filling the post?

So, yes, you might very well have the right skillset and experience. But if you can’t meet one of their key criteria (willing to come in to the office as required), then I think you are perhaps not “the perfect candidate” that you believe yourself to be. You are instead a very good candidate, but the prospective employer has to weigh up whether, on balance, your requirement to wfh is outweighed by your other attributes. It is clear that so far, that has not been the case.

I know many people feel working for home is always just as productive and they work just as well. Sometimes that is true, sometimes it really isn’t. I think wfh has been around for long enough now for employers to be able to judge what works best for the organisation as a whole- this may not be the same as what individual employees might prefer. Doesn’t make the employer wrong on every occasion. Not every employer who is not keen on wfh is useless/poor at managing employees etc. If all those organisations preferring not to have wfh/using minimal wfh are wrong, they’ll presumably soon alter their course because of falling profits/losing out to competitors. Or these business will fail.

Having re-read what I wrote obviously everything depends on the nature and circumstances of the business. Years later, I now have a very small one, with no office at all. We rarely even meet, but carry on satisfying clients. In fact my PA and I are in the same city but it's a couple of weeks since I saw her.

Just to make it clear, I’m completely in favour of WFH/hybrid, where practical, supportive of teachers being allowed to prepare in school time at home, if their timetables allow, and very aware of the huge pressures on those in the profession…I just would have thought there were a great many things higher up on the list of grievances than the ability to WFH! But also realise that greater flexibility could make it easier for mums returning after mat leave etc, so it’s great if that’s being looked into.

There has been a significant rise in homeworkers claiming an ‘accident at work’ in their own homes. This in turn has bumped the cost of insurances up for having homeworkers. By having employees in the office you have more control and mitigate risk.

Weird, I'm a solicitor who specialises in EL claims and I've seen absolutely no such claims cross my desk, or the desks of my colleagues.

Didn't come off that way to me.

So because you haven't seen it, you think it doesn't happen?

Maybe there are some chancers out there, but I doubt there are many, to be honest. Especially not successful ones, which are the ones which would seriously impact premiums.

ETA: I know exactly which firms would try these claims on though!

If nobody knows - what difference does it make?!

Surely the want the most productive, skilled and effective employees no matter where their work base is?

The employer can please both and offer flexibility!

The business need is for the work to be done.

Motivating an employee is pretty crucial to getting that done! A happy employee is more likely to be productive.

What is the logic in requiring someone to undertake 2 hours of commuting when it is not necessary?!

Oh come off it, someone who works in a business is pretty well placed to understand the business needs. You're not very bright if you don't!

As for "bringing up a nation of namby pambys" - well hardly - I'm in my 60s so I have been kicking around for a long time! I do not want to commute for an hour each way unless it is absolutely necessary. I have done my time! Pre-Covid I would never have dreamt where I would be 5 years later!!!

Five years of our team WFH has proved that we can work every bit as well from home as from the office, if not better.

Other activities other than work are available.

Not all put in the effort in the office either!!

And as I said upthread, my experience is that our team is based over several locations in any case, so we have never have the F2F interactions other employees might experience.

What does that have to do with the fact that they are able to manage flexibility for managers?

Or expect her employer to honour the contract they made with her.