To consider working for the NHS?

[NHSMaybe]

I'll start by saying healthcare in general is really not my thing. I'm very appreciative of the NHS, but I can't 'do' blood, would never want to be a doctor/nurse (very squeamish) and have never even looked at any jobs working within the sector.

I work in a pretty niche operations role in the Tech Sector. I'm a Director - very good role with lots of perks, including lots of WFH except for when I travel every month or so. I earn approx £130k base, with a few years of incredible bonuses. On paper everything in the role is perfect, but I have the underlying constant feeling that essentially I'm not doing any 'good' - I'm just making rich people (and me!) richer.

I've been approached about an NHS role in the same niche. The role is Associate Director (band 8d, £96-109k inc a supplement for being based in central London) and I've been assured it would be hybrid and flexible. Not really scope to progress without expanding from my niche, but that is the case in my current role too!

Am I mad to be considering this? I could definitely 'survive' (very well, I appreciate I'm a higher earner!) off the lower salary, and it's actually made me feel really excited for the first time in a while about making a difference.

Also some technical questions:

• If you work in the operations/admin side of things, do you feel you have a good work/life balance? I know there's 'the NHS is on its knees!' which gets spoken about a lot, but outside of primary care is this still the case? FWIW the role is in a specialist hospital, not a general one.

• I've heard conflicting things, but would I be able to negotiate salary for further up the band due to previous experience? A friend works for the NHS and is adamant I'd only be 'allowed' to enter at the bottom of the band.

Also happy to hear general tips/considerations when thinking about working for the NHS. I know the pension scheme is pretty good! I'm very new to this and have no one to talk to about it IRL (friend who works for the NHS doesn't know much about the Operations/Admin side!)

No I was a senior clerical officer. I worked on reception at A&E, Medical Records and the Pharmacy. My partner was a manager but left after 20 years to join the law.

Think long and hard about joining the NHS. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7287gxn7m3o.amp

@NHSMaybe

The tech. OMG. I am a senior manager and I can’t get a laptop from IT that actually starts up without rebooting 10 times first. IT gaslight me - apparently it’s not a problem and is not abnormal. No acknowledgment that they bought a job lot of shit incompatible tech. I have had a replacement laptop which is exactly the same. Given one screen by IT for wfh (not allowed two, far too indulgent) - it was smashed when I inspected it.

Microsoft 365? A version of Excel that is less than 10 years old? Forget it.

Failing to join a teams meeting while in the office = my fault. Despite hot desks missing vital IT equipment to enable me to connect. Think half leads with a plug but with the usb section missing. And vice versa. And meeting rooms with no screen, no wifi and no connectivity - lots of meeting rooms like this.

Managing team performance? Objectives? We don’t even have software for it. Managing someone who is underperforming is useless nonsense - so many excuses from above to get you to stop the process. This is for someone who has been with the organisation less than a year, let alone two years.

To say it is in the 90’s would be generous. 80’s perhaps.

The culture is the worst. There’s an underlying inference that you’re imagining how bad it all is, it’s all in your head and everyone else is coping so much better than you.

We have people recruited in from the private sector because “change is needed”. They leave, fast, if they possibly can.

Don’t make the move through any altruistic need. You’ll regret it.

Nailed it.

@NHSMaybe I wouldn't touch NHS IT/Digital with a barge pole at National or Regional level. Maybe at Trust or ICB level if you do your homework and check out the local arrangements and leadership.

Nationally it is incredibly toxic at the moment, and likely to go through yet another restructure (announced last week). At 8d and above it is more like a final episode of Traitors - the backstabbing and politics are what takes up most of your time. Nationally and locally, contracts and procurement take forever to negotiate, there is never enough money so you are lucky if you manage to realise even 10% of what you hoped to when you first take on the job and staff morale is generally through the floor. Everything in the system is designed to prevent you from doing a good job.

HR policies are dire if you have underperforming staff above and below you, but great on paper if you need flexibility. However, the reality is how the policies around flexible working are interpreted is very dependent on your boss, and if they don't follow the policies they are pretty much safe to do whatever they like because the HR system is slow and tired and demands very little accountability for senior staff, and keeps staff in work regardless of whether they can do the job. You are constantly working with one or both arms tied behind your back.

Stick where you are or look at some of the other social good places to work.

I worked for a long time at a local hospital - the atmosphere was good most of the senior people were hardworking and generally pleasant. However there were a few people (eg our head of department) who were quite lazy and useless but we're being carried by the next layer down who for some reason were happy to carry the person and cover for the fact that they were never on site (this was pre WFH days).
We merged with another trust and a large proportion of the people from the other trust were nasty bullies from 8a upwards. The most senior banded of these are now at director and deputy director level and are forever on linked in singing their own praises.

My DH is in a director role in NHS and hasn’t experienced anything like this. It’s great flexibility and he and his boss above both do childcare jobs they need to, WFH etc. Decent people.

Could someone put this thread in front of Wes Streeting?

Just on the subject of points on the pay band, OP, if they want you, they will negotiate, even though the starting point is often to say that everyone has to start on the bottom of the pay band.

There are issues across the NHS around workplace culture, bullying and management structures where incompetent or bullying staff are protected/promoted. It's not everywhere. Some Trusts and some departments are particularly bad. If you are still considering this move after reading the comments on the thread, please do your homework about the particular Trust and team you would potentially be joining. I was in a management role with potential to progress further and I stepped down because of these issues. I was being sabotaged and undermined at every hand and turn. It took years for them to manage out the main culprit, who was promoted 4 times before being made redundant. This is not a problem with one person - it's organisational culture. I hear this repeatedly as a theme from others. The NHS Trusts have all the right policies and guidance, but they are not implemented and nepotism/cliques rule.

This sums it up. I am clinical, worked in the NHS for 25 years. Mostly London hospitals... above grade 8 there are crazy batshit jobs and I can honestly tell you I have no idea what they do, why they were created! So this answer is very plausible.

As for bullying. More common in senior roles but does not exist in every trust. Some are worse than others, a lot!

I would not risk it. There are other ways to contribute to society than IT in the NHS.