To ask why women's healthcare is so bad

[SerenePeach]

On the news yesterday was a feature on womens healthcare. I have endometriosis and lived in pain for 15 years before getting a diagnosis and treatment. Women were telling of how they lost internal organs to endometriosis due to their care being so delayed. This happened to me too.

A gynaecologist was interviewed saying she felt so helpless with over 750,000 women on the waiting list. She said whenever there are cut backs gynaecology is always the worst impacted. Why?

I don't believe it's as simple as men don't care about women and men are in charge. So why is this happening? Really? Can anyone shed any light? Gynae illnesses cost the economy 11 billion a year in lost work through sickness so money alone should motivate the powers that be to improve women's health care, so why isn't it happening?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p0bvg9nm?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

This series was really interesting. It follows the menstrual cycle and other associated issues (endo gets a mention at some point) going roughly through a 28 day cycle.

Because currently there is a war on women that has been raging for at least the past 7 years.
Misogyny reigns. It is the worst time in my long lifetime to be a woman.
Women are being routinely diminished, called all sorts of names such as menstruators, birthing bodies, chestfeeders, people with ovaries. Medicines like HRT are now being shared with men.
Politicians like to call it a 'culture war' to cover it up and pretend women's rights are not being removed.

Medicine is based around the male body. So understanding of the female body is still quite archaic.

Read Womb by Leah Hazard. Mind boggling how little men have cared to research on our conditions over the centuries. Men still want to pretend waging war isn't down to their hormones...

My relative has it due to an injury that has caused nerve damage. There’s quite a few things that can cause it I believe, but mostly they treat the symptoms rather than try to find the cause. Vulvodynia is an umbrella terms that just covers off pain in the vulvar region

I clicked the thread just to post this. I had a long chat with a female doctor about that book. It was a good distraction for an hour while she was sticking needles in me. She had never heard of the book, but there were a few lightbulb moments. It should be compulsory reading for doctors.

The sounds really interesting I'll give it a watch!

the human skeleton used for medical practice and learning , its a male skeleton

Where on Earth did you hear this? It is utter bollocks. I studied over 150 different skeletons of both sexes and all ages, including fetal & ones with various diseases that affect the skeleton. I also dissected male and female cadavers.

OP- it’s not that women’s healthcare is particularly terrible, all healthcare is on its knees due to chronic underfunding and understaffing of the NHS. The NI tax increase is making it worse as well, especially for GP surgeries and pharmacies that were already struggling to cope with many closing due to NHS contract payments falling short of costs.

Because no one gives a fuck when women suffer.

Also a lot of research is dependent on academics instructing it, a lot of whom are men, too many of whom are problematic men.

I posted this article a while ago and it didn't get much interest but it's very informative.

A lot of the time women are treated as hysterics and not taken seriously. When I was unwell, my Dr kept sending me away with antidepressants when I had a chronic illness. It took over two years before she referred me to a specialist.

It is particularly women's health care, there's currently a women's health crisis, a public enquiry found that that women's pain was far less likely to be taken seriously or treated properly than a man's.

A gynaecologist on BBC news literally said whenever there is a set back for health care gynaecology takes the first cuts every time and the pandemic set gynae treatment back further than all other specialities, the gynae waiting list increased more than all other disciplines during and since the pandemic.

Yes the rest of it is failing too but gynae is failing the most, consistently.

We live in a system designed by men, for men. See also education, the judiciary, law enforcement, equality in the workplace etc, etc. Name one thing where women are prioritised. No one cares, well obviously women care, but we don't count.

I do not agree it is particularly women’s healthcare.

First, I read the BBC article and the wait list data excludes urgent referrals, ie cancer pathway, so the growing wait list is for nonurgent investigations. in contrast 1.4 million surgeries were cancelled last year due to staff shortages.

I think you will find that for some specialties there isn’t even a wait list, because the NHS isn’t offering it at all like prostate cancer screening. All gynae cancer screening is still happening, as are urgent referrals on time for suspected gynae. cancer. And you think women’s healthcare is particularly bad?

Gynae isn’t “the first to be cut”, the first is mental health, second is social care, and third is prescription drugs. Gynae hasn’t been especially targeted at all.

The BBC article was expressing an opinion of a gynaecologist with a few stats to support it. It’s not a research paper.

a public enquiry found that that women's pain was far less likely to be taken seriously or treated properly than a man's.

I read this enquiry and the entire basis of this claim was the fact that for some pain medications, a woman has to be given a pregnancy test prior to being given strong pain relievers that can cause birth defects or miscarriage. This then delays treatment by a couple of hours if not pregnant, or it not being possible to give as strong a pain relief if pregnant.

It’s not due to taking women’s pain less seriously or not treating it “properly”.

I fully agree the patriarchy and sexism affects healthcare, but many of these claims are unfounded and unhelpful.

It is not remotely unfounded that women's pain is dismissed and taken less seriously due to gender bias. This has been proven many times. A study was conducted where men and women described pain in exactly the same way to many different doctors and the men were given pain relief more often than the women, the women were more often given counselling and the pain described as psychosomatic.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/apr/analysis-womens-pain-routinely-underestimated-and-gender-stereotypes-are-blame

Non urgent doesn't actually mean non urgent it just means not cancer. There is a whole world of pain in between non urgent and cancer. Just because a condition won't kill you it doesn't mean it can wait as long as you like without causing damage. Many non urgent gynae conditions are progressive and get worse the longer they are left untreated.

I lost two fallopian tubes, one ovary and a section of bowel waiting for my endometriosis surgery, my fertility and bowel function would have been saved if I had been treated years earlier, before the endo spread, when I was first put on the waiting list. Is the destruction of my internal organs non urgent just because it won't kill me like cancer will?

I would think that a gynaecologist would be the best person to comment on the state of gynaecology and whether more cuts are made to their departments than other departments in the hospitals they work in.

No, stop this. I'm sick of not being able to discuss an issue on MN because everything can be explained away by the trans issue instead of really getting to the root cause.

The issue is the chronic underfunding of women's healthcare and the perpetual insistence that women are unreliable subjects for research.

After decades of being told I'm a liar and my pain isn't chronic, I'm finally having a hysterectomy. The fact that it's taken me 30 years to get here is a fucking travesty.

Also highly recommend this if you think all issues of misogyny can be explained away by shouting trans on every thread.

Invisible woman the book

I'm aware of the waits to get endo diagnosed but in my case the first GP I said I suspect it to (male) referred me and I had my laparoscopy within a couple of months.

You do have to advocate for yourself, do many women not feel comfortable doing this?.

There was a thread on here yesterday asking about preparing for peri by a woman in her thirties. I was amazed how many women replied to say basically that their peri had been fine and everyone should stop making such a fuss over it. I was quite shocked. If even women are dismissive of women’s health issues and the importance of being informed and prepared, what hope is there!

Same reason why maternity health is underfunded as is menopause health .you really don't see the pattern emerging?

You do have to advocate for yourself, do many women not feel comfortable doing this?.

when you are unwell or in pain, it’s not a case of feeling comfortable to advocate for yourself. Nobody should have to do so, it needs to be done regardless

It’s not just gynae issues where women are fobbed off. My mum went to the GP repeatedly over several years with worrying symptoms of two serious issues. Both times she was told it was anxiety. I guess the five hour heart surgery and recent Parkinson’s diagnosis were both in her head. Yet when my dad went to the GP with lesser symptoms he was immediately referred for further tests and scans. He was fine by the way, just a hypochondriac.

The Patriarchy is Real

You do have to advocate for yourself, do many women not feel comfortable doing this?.

I don't have the words for how condescending this is.