Has anyone ever been to a messy church event?

[Mamabear04]

Just wondering if anyone has taken their kids to a messy church event and what it was like? We've been invited by a friend but was wondering if it's very religious or.....? I like the idea of crafts a free food though!

Either way, I feel sad that it’s being used for a practice steeped in Hindu spirituality.

It's not really a religious ceremony. It's a small prayer or bible story that lasts about 5 minutes. The rest is child based activities. The last one I went to we made had smores outside and they did colouring in and painting. I am not religious but I can pipe down for 5 minutes and respect others' values in a church if I want my kids to join in the activities. If you find it tiresome or stupid, then it falls into the same category as being offended and you just don't go. No one is forcing you to.

What's wrong with Hinduism?

If you are a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, it’s totally incompatible.

Why?

There's just such a contrast between people saying "it's barely religious at all" and the actual religious zealots who run it, who say things like "it's sad to see a yoga class in a church" and this: https://www.messychurch.brf.org.uk/what-messy-church/christ-centred

These people don't see any inherent value in putting on activities for your kid. They literally think it's a waste of time to take part - it's "heartless" - unless it's done for their religious reasons. I think it's instructive to read why this is happening and it is ONLY to spread their religion.

But the mystery (and annoying thing and huge relief all at the same time) is that we could do all that work and do it brilliantly but it would STILL be a waste of time, fruitless, rootless and heartless unless Christ is the reason for doing it, the means of doing it and his glory the outcome of doing it

As all my kids are older now I feel an adult themed messy church would be fun 🙃

Christians are monotheistic.

What's that got to do with yoga as most people practise it though? Would imagine very few people practising yoga in any building give much thought to Hinduism.

Aren't you doing the same by telling them Jesus doesn't exist? Every parent imposes their beliefs on their children even if you aren't aware of it.

Thats not what I tell my children. I tell them people believe different things, and we don't have a lot of evidence for the existence of a god so its not a fact that one exists, but that for some people belief or faith brings them comfort and joy. Its very annoying the way school talk about god & other christian stories as if they are absolute facts, and as if the creation story is a historical event rather than probably an allegorical story to help people of the past understand the world around them.

It's the definition of CofE. Relaxed, friendly, caring and welcoming without being pushy. I'm not religious but always feel comfortable in a Church of England Church.

Yoga in a building intended as a meeting place for the worship of God 😬 it just makes me feel so sad 😞

Church buildings in the UK were largely funded by enforced levies for centuries on the population, many of whom were not truly donating out of choice. The entanglement of church/state/the aristocracy makes it nigh on impossible to separate them from other public buildings and imho they should be considered as belonging to the community, just as ancient monuments like Stonehenge are. When anglicanism largely dies out in the UK in the next 50 years many of those buildings will be deconsecrated and fall into public ownership anyway, as lots of churches already are. The church in my village has a single digit elderly congregation that can no longer afford paid clergy or the upkeep of the building, there are hundreds more like it.

One of our local churches is a Tesco downstairs and had a swanky restaurant upstairs for a while.

Agree with this. Fair enough to include religious activities but should be transparent about that

I don’t see Christianity as necessarily monotheistic either, even if you count the Trinity as a single entity. The NT wouldn’t describe a battle between god and the devil if the devil wasn’t deemed equally powerful.

I was brought up in the church, I have no strong affiliation to it now as an adult old enough to make up my own mind.

I have to say that its attitudes like yours @SuperfluousHen that mean I have little time for it.

I have no room for prejudice of any kind in my life, we all have different beliefs and backgrounds, I’m always struck by how unchristian behaviour often comes from those who claim to be practising christians.

What unchristian behaviour?
I said I felt sad.
am I not allowed to feel how I feel anymore?

Where does the ‘sadness’ come from @SuperfluousHen ? What possible explanation could there be to not welcoming a group of people who want to take part in a wellbeing activity in what would otherwise be an empty building at that time of the weekly calendar?

For me ‘Christian’ behaviour includes welcoming with tolerance and respect.

@YourLastNerve has it, I hope that we can look forward to a time of change for these incredible buildings, one where the dwindling elderly congregations once or twice a week are replaced with vibrant and varied community groups using churches on a daily basis.

I've sat on my dusty church hall floors doing crafts, sing song, holding a cuppa and a biscuit. I thought it was fun and great way to meet other mums. And I'm not religious but these events were never about that.

But the Christians organising it say it IT IS ALL about that. That the fun you were having is meaningless and heartless without that. That meeting other mums is worthless, a waste of time, unless you are doing it "for Jesus." They haven't invited you because they want you to have a nice time, they've only invited you so they can convert you to their faith.

A reminder of what they say:

it would STILL be a waste of time, fruitless, rootless and heartless unless Christ is the reason for doing it, the means of doing it and his glory the outcome of doing it.

Maybe you are happy to ignore that. Personally, I would be uncomfortable accepting an invitation to somewhere where it's purported to be one thing but the actual reason I was invited is so I could be converted to someone else's religion.

@MasterBeth yes but "Messy Church" is part of the church services - so of course it will be about Christianity and Jesus. The same as if you went to a regular Sunday service.
It's different to a playgroup being held in the church hall which may or may not be run by anyone connected to the church (which is what I think @ihaveliterallynoidea was talking about).

These people don't see any inherent value in putting on activities for your kid. They literally think it's a waste of time to take part - it's "heartless" - unless it's done for their religious reasons. I think it's instructive to read why this is happening and it is ONLY to spread their religion.

It's not really possible to generalise about CofE volunteers and churches to a 'these people' and 'ONLY' extent, whatever the website says. It's called a broad church for a reason. Some churches are definitely motivated by evangelism. Others will see messy church as a way of serving the community because, like other religions, Christianity encourages its members to serve and support others as an inherent good. The christianese in the passage that you quoted covers both motivations. But I can see why it would be off putting if you object to any form of evangelism.

I’d like to see the vast majority of churches de-Christened (or whatever the actual word is) and be turned into community buildings that everyone can enjoy. Churches are empty 95% of the time and it’s a waste of space. So few people go to them just consolidate to one or two an area and give the rest back to the community to maintain and enjoy.

I don't know how you can read the passage I quoted above and pretend it means your second intention, "to serve and support others as an inherent good."

That would be a laudable intention. But the passage literally says the opposite.

Unless "the glory of Jesus" is the outcome it is a heartless waste of time. If someone just goes along and has a good time, makes a new friend, that's deemed to be worthless.

Firstly this is happening in many places.

Secondly many churches halls are fully booked every might of the week by scouts/guides, slimming world, ballroom dancing, yoga, U3A, Probus etc. The loss of these spaces as churches are sold for conversion to flats is becoming a real problem especially as it coincides with councils reducing school let's and closing community centres due to budget cuts.

Yes, we're completely non-religious and have always had fun there! Everyone is friendly and the God stuff doesn't get pushed too hard. Be careful though, they lure you in with the free biscuits and before you know it, you're joining in with the hymns.