Page 4 | Private school headteacher salaries - pure greed?

Araminta1003 · 21/10/2024 15:42

Look in any other industry if someone is suddenly paid 40% more, the assumption is they are matching an offer from elsewhere?! So maybe the governors had no choice and another school tried to poach the head.

Araminta1003 · 21/10/2024 15:44

The problem in state schools now is obviously. The PTAs fund things like art supplies because the state fails to do so. Hence the schools become desperate for strong PTAs and a rich parent group which runs contrary to the ethos of state education. Then they all start conniving ways to get richer parents and higher achieving kids in. Harris is master at this.

3WildOnes · 21/10/2024 15:45

ComtesseDeSpair · 21/10/2024 14:24

Parents sending their children to those schools aren’t the ones who are going to be making a decision on whether or not to withdraw their children because they can’t afford VAT.

Parents who work in the sort of fields which means they earn the sort of money to be able to afford fees at the schools paying their senior staff the most are more likely to understand that attracting and retaining good staff means offering an attractive salary.

Comparing salaries paid via taxation (CS and public sector) with salaries paid by private businesses is a false equivalence.

Edited

Maybe not at Eton or Winchester but I know quite a few Hampton parents who won't be continuing into the 6th form due to the VAT increase.

Genevive24 · 21/10/2024 15:46

Southwestten · 21/10/2024 15:39

They are the two sides of the same coin, and I refuse to accept it.

@Genevive24 how will your refusal to accept it manifest itself?
There’s a man called Ian Bone who used to march around the streets of Eton (claiming to be trespassing in the school’s private property but in fact
on public roads) holding banners and shouting ‘class war is the only war’.
Maybe you could join him next time he ventures out in one of his protests.

In this instance I was just letting other posters know that I am completely unpersuaded by the “they worked hard for it / skills are worth that much” arguments.

And I vote in line with my values. A day with Mr Bone sounds fun but I prefer democracy to class war! :-)

Foxesandsquirrels · 21/10/2024 15:50

It looks like it's pretty much in line with the other schools now.

itsgettingweird · 21/10/2024 15:50

LostittoBostik · 21/10/2024 14:33

Only those who are very invested in propping up a grossly unfair system are "outraged" over the VAT policy.

This was very well focus grouped before Starmer went for it. The overwhelming majority of the country is 100 per cent supportive of removing the VAT exemption.

You're just hearing a lot about it because so many people in the press send their children to these schools..

The irony being it was think tanked because when we left the EU we could charge VAT on education.

The very people who wanted to leave are now not happy they are suffering the effects of leaving.

It was only meant to affect asylum seekers and the poor you see!

Foxesandsquirrels · 21/10/2024 15:51

3WildOnes · 21/10/2024 15:45

Maybe not at Eton or Winchester but I know quite a few Hampton parents who won't be continuing into the 6th form due to the VAT increase.

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To be fair I was surprised to see the Hampton heads salary was that high, it's not exactly in the same league as Eton

Frowningprovidence · 21/10/2024 15:51

I couldn't care less. People have a choice to go to Eton. There are loads of other schools. If they want to pay him that they can.

I'm more intrigued by the' 37 trusts named and shamed in new outlier trust pay crackdown" which was the Schools Week headline. The trusts were paying more than trusts of a similar size/type.

It didn't include the Harris trust ceo who gets 500k a year as presumably that's not an outlier due to the size of the trust.

This is taxpayers money. Are we getting value, school choice is often an illusion for state schools. They might be great value.

Araminta1003 · 21/10/2024 15:54

“This was very well focus grouped before Starmer went for it. The overwhelming majority of the country is 100 per cent supportive of removing the VAT exemption.”

@LostittoBostik - they will only remain supportive if it does not impact their local state options adversely. If private schools end up hoovering up all the best state places, it will be outrage and the same turkeys voting for Christmas as we saw with Brexit.

Howmanycatsistoomany · 21/10/2024 15:57

AIBU to think that what private school headteachers are paid speaks to nothing more than pure greed in these individuals?

Yes, YABU. Assuming you're employed, have you ever turned down a salary increase?

3WildOnes · 21/10/2024 16:03

itsgettingweird · 21/10/2024 15:50

The irony being it was think tanked because when we left the EU we could charge VAT on education.

The very people who wanted to leave are now not happy they are suffering the effects of leaving.

It was only meant to affect asylum seekers and the poor you see!

Show quote history

No one in my social circle voted to leave yet most send their children to private schools. Richmond upon thames Borough has one of the highest percent of children attending independent schools 25% but were in the top 20 places to vote remain at 69%. Look at the areas who voted to leave, not areas with a high percentage of children attending private schools.

NoMoreFalafelForYou · 21/10/2024 16:06

Are you a parent at the school OP? If not I can’t see why it’s any of your concern.

Snorlaxo · 21/10/2024 16:07

The headline percentage rise sounds excessive but I think that the head of Eton being paid similar to other top schools is simple market economics. As long as the school produces the results, I can’t see that parents will care. They want a head who is as good as the ones at other top schools and in order to attract the best, they need to pay the best.

Yabu to think that this is individual greed. By your reasoning; anybody earning over median UK wage is greedy.

Didimum · 21/10/2024 16:07

Careful, OP. The bitter VAT payers are coming to get you.

Thommasina · 21/10/2024 16:07

I have no skin in this game, but if private schools are businesses then surely they can pay their headteachers whatever they like?

BobLemon · 21/10/2024 16:15

The rest of the world think private schools are a business—like a Hilton, or something

Tell me, in small words I can understand easily, why they’re not a business…

twomanyfrogsinabox · 21/10/2024 16:16

People on here casually drop in that they are earning £200,000 or £300,000, what are they doing to earn that much? The headmaster of a school like Eton is running a big enterprise not just doing the odd bit of teaching. All sorts of people seem to get these (to me) extraordinary salaries including people running charities as well as some middle to high ranking business managers, even influencers on Facebook and TikTok manage to earn these sort of sums (who are really doing nothing as far as I'm concerned).

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 21/10/2024 16:22

Obviously they can pay what they like, but that's a huge increase, % wise.

Were they paying way under market rate before? Has he done something miraculous in the last year? Of course, they're not answerable to me on either of those questions. But I think I read that Eton are passing on the full 20% VAT to parents - if I was a parent there'd I'd be wondering what significant improvements had been made to give such a large pay rise.

Snorlaxo · 21/10/2024 16:25

Have a look at the top wages of university chancellors (which is a more suitable comparison than head of the civil service) and £300k+ for a top independent secondary doesn’t look so crazy.

MilletOver · 21/10/2024 17:03

Gruffalowings · 21/10/2024 14:30

Are you concerned about what the teachers earn? Their pay award this year? Contracted workers? Do you automatically assume they are treated fairly in these privileged settings?

There is extraordinary licence granted by parents to these greedy individuals. It’s a total blind spot - outrage at VAT going on fees, absolute delight that a very rich individual has been given an above inflation pay award while withdrawing their teachers from the teacher pension scheme.

Where’s the logic?

I care very much what teachers in state schools get paid, how much money goes into state schools overall, and about the quality of education in state schools.

Private schools are businesses. People can choose or choose not to go to them. And can take salaries into account if that is part of their decision making. I don’t care about the standard of education or facilities on offer in private schools. Or how greedy or not the Heads might be. I dare say the parents aren’t outraged enough to withdraw their kids, presumably because their own salaries reflect even greater ‘pure greed’ 😂

Nanny0gg · 21/10/2024 17:05

Gruffalowings · 21/10/2024 14:30

Are you concerned about what the teachers earn? Their pay award this year? Contracted workers? Do you automatically assume they are treated fairly in these privileged settings?

There is extraordinary licence granted by parents to these greedy individuals. It’s a total blind spot - outrage at VAT going on fees, absolute delight that a very rich individual has been given an above inflation pay award while withdrawing their teachers from the teacher pension scheme.

Where’s the logic?

What do you earn?

What determines your salary?

bigvig · 21/10/2024 17:31

Look up academy chain bosses salaries if you want to be annoyed. Cross reference rising salaries with falling standards if you want to be even more annoyed. The myth that high pay at the top is needed to attract talent is just that - a myth.

MichaelandKirk · 21/10/2024 17:32

The OP doesnt seem to have an issue with the VC of universities earing £££. What about heads of certain state schools/academies? Or is it OK for them?

Sounds like there is a chip on the shoulder...

MiraculousLadybug · 21/10/2024 18:00

Gruffalowings · 21/10/2024 15:09

And was it one of the schools on that list? Because there’s no interest or concern, as far as I can see, in what you are describing and yet what you say is typical of what I am seeing.

Do fee payers just not care?

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No, not one of the schools on the list, but a well-known one with some very well-known alumni, and as you mentioned in the post right before the quoted one, they also removed staff from TPS with fire and rehire at the same time. It came from the governors at DH's school.

Private schools are marketing themselves on the idea that they have "better teachers" and I've even seen people say that on MN, and yet DH interviewed this year for 5 quite well-known private schools this year and every last one of them pitted him against a grad with no teacher training (he has 10 years of experience) and hired the significantly cheaper graduate with a view to training them.

He walked into a HoD job elsewhere in the end, but replacing experienced teachers with unqualified grads puts more strain on middle leadership if they've got to teach every member of staff how to actually teach a class as well as sorting out data reporting/analysis and their own classes. It means there's no expertise to replace the HoD/2iD or cover for them if they're on long-term sick, or for HoD/2iD to delegate departmental tasks to. It also reduces the quality of education for the students.

Another thing we've seen lately is private schools only offering teachers the % fee remission on the stage of the school they teach at, so prep teachers can't get fee discount on pre-prep or post-13, for example, at some of the through schools. It's just not going to attract the best candidates.

The private sector are coasting on a marketing ideal and image that IMO they're no longer living up to despite fees going up and up. These schools are only still going because of the number of international students they attract based on that outdated ideal. They're taking fees, skimming off the top, throwing money at stupid vanity projects and not paying/incentivising the "boots on the ground" to create/deliver the product that's being sold to parents. As people have said it's a free market and private teachers are leaving in droves atm, mostly to work in international schools.

Any school is only as good as its teachers.

Fee payers really should care because they can't see inside the schools and their children are being massively let down by these sort of new policies.

Thommasina · 21/10/2024 18:03

MiraculousLadybug · 21/10/2024 18:00

No, not one of the schools on the list, but a well-known one with some very well-known alumni, and as you mentioned in the post right before the quoted one, they also removed staff from TPS with fire and rehire at the same time. It came from the governors at DH's school.

Private schools are marketing themselves on the idea that they have "better teachers" and I've even seen people say that on MN, and yet DH interviewed this year for 5 quite well-known private schools this year and every last one of them pitted him against a grad with no teacher training (he has 10 years of experience) and hired the significantly cheaper graduate with a view to training them.

He walked into a HoD job elsewhere in the end, but replacing experienced teachers with unqualified grads puts more strain on middle leadership if they've got to teach every member of staff how to actually teach a class as well as sorting out data reporting/analysis and their own classes. It means there's no expertise to replace the HoD/2iD or cover for them if they're on long-term sick, or for HoD/2iD to delegate departmental tasks to. It also reduces the quality of education for the students.

Another thing we've seen lately is private schools only offering teachers the % fee remission on the stage of the school they teach at, so prep teachers can't get fee discount on pre-prep or post-13, for example, at some of the through schools. It's just not going to attract the best candidates.

The private sector are coasting on a marketing ideal and image that IMO they're no longer living up to despite fees going up and up. These schools are only still going because of the number of international students they attract based on that outdated ideal. They're taking fees, skimming off the top, throwing money at stupid vanity projects and not paying/incentivising the "boots on the ground" to create/deliver the product that's being sold to parents. As people have said it's a free market and private teachers are leaving in droves atm, mostly to work in international schools.

Any school is only as good as its teachers.

Fee payers really should care because they can't see inside the schools and their children are being massively let down by these sort of new policies.

Show quote history

Huh? I think parents of kids at the school are the best placed to decide if the school works for their kids or not. If the dcs are happy and thriving and do well academically then it's all good.