Family member awarded enhanced pip - AIBU?

[Orangecrocs]

My family member has just been awarded enhanced pip in both living and mobility components.
Shes told me that she’s twisted the truth during the assessment and told the assessor that she has lots of pain and can’t really walk at all, but she walks all the time as I see her out and about - we live in a hilly area. I know people who are in a wheelchair and struggle to get enhanced rate - so I really don’t understand how she’s managed this.
I know people will say mind your own business but she’s told me she’s actually lied to them.

My DS also gave details of the medical professionals involved in his care. And as well as his stack of evidence, several of them were contacted. It's preetty safe to assume that if you don't provide evidence but contact details that your contacts are likely to be contacted - unless your condition is manifestly so serious and unlikely to resolve that this isn't deemed necessary.

My DS got a 10 year award, high rate for both components.

Because you’re not awarded PIP with no evidence. If you don’t send in medical or other evidence yourself, that’s fine. But on the application form you consent to the DWP contacting any of the health professionals you name on the form as being involved with your care. You won’t necessarily be advised that they’ve contacted them as you’ve already given permission for that to happen.

In addition, there is always an assessors’ report. The DWP case manager who makes the benefit decision isn’t medically trained and relies on an interpretation of the information contained in the application form and from other supporting evidence - this is what the assessor provides in their report. It can be done on the information in the application form if there’s enough detail to get a fair idea of the level of functional impairment. But mostly the assessor will either contact the professionals named on the application form, or will contact the claimant directly by phone or video call, or by making an appointment for a face to face assessment where necessary. It’s always preferable to supply your own evidence where possible, otherwise you’re relying on the assessors’ report alone.

If this is true, the claim is definitely false and fraudulent I'm afraid. You don't say what you want to do about it though?

It isn’t definitely false - you don’t know on what basis she’s been awarded it on, and neither does anyone else apart from the claimant. This bloody thread is so infuriating!

This in itself isn’t an indication of a false claim. It depends on what grounds they are claiming. I haven’t read this particular post so I don’t know what level of benefit this person is claiming but it’s absolutely possible to be able to walk in this manner and still qualify for even the advanced rate of PIP.

For all activities, including mobility, the assessor has to consider whether the applicant can complete it safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a timely manner.

Safely means without exacerbating their condition or causing injury to anyone else. Reliably means to an acceptable standard. Repeatedly means as often as necessary throughout the day without having a knock on effect on other activities assessed, and in a timely manner means in less than twice the time it takes a non disabled person to complete the same activity. The assessor has to consider how many times the claimant has to stop and rest, and for how long, and they also have to consider any pain or breathlessness the claimant experiences as a result of doing the activity, as well as any pain or other medication necessary in order to complete the activity.

I wouldn’t know this level of detail about any of even my closest friends or family.

Unless you are qualified to assess whether all of these things apply, and you know what level of benefit has been awarded and for what reason, you have absolutely no way of determining whether that claim is fraudulent or not and you run the risk of reporting someone and triggering a review of their benefit when in fact, they haven’t done anything wrong. There’s a reason benefit assessors are healthcare professionals. There’s also a reason why they are trained and fully versed in PiP rules and how they are applied and interpreted. Unless you are trained to the same standard, you really aren’t qualified to judge.

This. Amazing isn’t it ? So many people can spot a fraudster despite not having a clue as to how PiP rules are applied or interpreted.

I was a PIP assessor a while back and you definitely need medical evidence to back up claims of pain/mobility etc. It wouldn't be awarded at the enhanced rate simply on the claimant's word.

You have to remember that some people will tell people things because they know they’re a nosey sod and it winds them up. I had a neighbour years bsck who is entitled to it 100%, but sarcastically told a known local busy body that it was all false and she was loving it. Lo and behold, a few weeks later she got a letter saying that she’d been reported and there would be an investigation. She knew she was doing nothing wrong, but laughed hysterically that this woman is such a bitter and envious nosey bugger 🤣 of course nothing came of it. Sometimes it’s just people trying to annoy others because they know they can’t stand others getting things and they will froth 😂

This. So many people not understanding that the claimant not supplying the medical evidence themselves doesn’t mean that it won’t be sought from the sources they’ve named on the form. Not sure if it’s still the case, but it used to be that if you didn’t supply supporting medical evidence you increased your chances of having to undergo a face to face assessment - possibly now a telephone or video call, and also having to rely solely on an assessors’ report to decide the claim, when possibly that report may have been completed without all the relevant facts.

That reminds me...if anyone reading this thread is currently in the the throes of a PIP application this is a very useful thread.

(Plantparent I don't know if the OP of the thread below was you, but if it was, thank you. Your thread really helped me and my DH).

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2764894--to-give-people-assistance-with-claiming-PIP

That post wasn't me but how interesting! I often spent hours carefully reviewing medical evidence, some claimants had more than 50 pieces of evidence. The PIP assessments are also audited and the auditors can override your recommendations based on the evidence provided. So I don't think OP has been given the clearest picture, you simply would not be able to get the enhanced rate based on fabrications.

Hello. May I ask you something? My mum is 73 and on PIP but only has lower rate mobility (8 points). Her mobility has reduced terribly, with her only managing a few yards before needing to sit, due to arthritis.

Can she apply for higher rate mobility? I called the PIP office and they said it’s just due to her age so she wouldn’t be able to apply.

The mobility rate of PIP cannot go up once someone is past state pension age. People who develop mobility issues once they have turned state pension age cannot claim a mobility component at all so she is better off than many.

Thank you.

I found this on the MS society website.

*If you're already claiming PIP and are over State Pension age, the government will contact you to say you no longer need to be reassessed. They'll also tell you when your light touch review will be.

If your needs change you can still ask for a reassessment by contacting the DWP*

@Rosscameasdoody can you advise?

Daily living can go up past state pension age but mobility cannot be increased or added.

I was being sarcastic to a very unpleasant poster. You could not be more wrong about my intentions. I was trying to highlight what you’ve said. We should never ever treat benefit claiming people as anything other than a fellow human.

You’re not reading it properly. If you choose not to supply your own medical evidence, you are left at the mercy of contact being made by the DWP. As a professional, I have received correspondence from the DWP asking for information on individuals.

What I cannot ot understand.

Regardless of compassion.

Regardless of the fact people on benefits are decidedly, definitely worse off.

Regardless of the fact it has NOTHING to do with you.

You've sat at home and stewed and thought, do you know what? This person shouldn't be getting disability payments. You have absolutely no idea of this person's mental state. You're not sympathetic, so they're hardly likely to be honest to you. But you've decided you're right.

You go ahead and report them. Every payment they have is stopped during the investigation. Because that's what happens.

Do you actually think they won't know it was you? Do you actually think they're well enough that they won't blame you and target you? You've ruined their life! They'll at the very least ask for help.

Because if I found out someone had deliberately done this to me, I wouldn't be sat here writing a Mumsnet thread about it. I would be going batshit on their arse. That person now has nothing because of you. who knows how they'd react?!

Which rather suggests they might be quite ill doesn't it?!

I mean, you're all supposed to quite clever.
Why piss off people who have nothing to lose.

That's rather dramatic.

Sorry, Ive had a really hard day at work sorting out people's benefit claims that have been stopped and I'm just so cross.

You have no idea what's going on in someone's life, why make it harder?!

And your taxes are used to pay me to sort it out!

It defies all logic

It was just hard today, I will log off and have a glass of wine and watch netflix.

Sorry guys. Let's not report people unless they're doing the river dance in front 5000 eh?!

‘You are incorrect about the consideration of the ability to use public transport or not. This is not a factor in deciding PIP mobility, and neither is access to or reliability of public transport. And only those people who receive the enhanced rate of mobility component are eligible to join the motability scheme - either solely via the moving around or planning and following a journey descriptors , or a combination of the two.’
This was what I was trying to get at but couldn’t think how to describe it properly.

The part about the mobility car was a bitnof a rant in reference from ignorant comments Ive heard over the years about mobility claimants. (It wasnt directly to you sorry if it came across that way!)
’They are just doing it for free car they can walk perfectly fine’ blah blah.
It grates on me the lack of understanding of whats involved in a PIP/mobility claim the
thinking that because someone can walk they are automatically assumed to be committing fraud😢

I know this woman well, very well. She’s completely playing the system, I can assure you of that. The primary reason for her PIP is Fibromyalgia, not alcoholism. She loves a drink and a day dancing in the pub, she’s not anxious or ill. She’s just learned all the right things to say and has a brass neck.

You’ll be pleased to hear that your second-hand tale of fraud, even if true, is vanishingly rare.

Someone who has clearly managed to bribe NHS consultants and trick the assessors every year is quite the master criminal.