To not want carers to have my Mum's bank card?

[TheTwinklyLemur]

My Mum has recently had to get carers due to her declining health, both physically and mentally. One of the things they do is to go shopping for her, or which they have asked for her bank card and PIN number. I really don't feel comfortable with this. Can't I just give them cash from her account, which I have access to?

Those suggesting online deliveries... if you don't self fund you don't have a "guaranteed" timeslot for carers.

If you do self fund then crap happens sometimes and you can bet it will happen for delivery slot time.

And a slot is usually minimum of one hour... Realistcally, how many people have a carer there for a whole hour at a time?

With MIL, her dementia means she cannot have access to medication, so there is a med safe where DH leaves cash and a folder for receipts. They also note when a bigger item is needed so he can order it or leave some extra cash.

Monzo card would be a good call. Absolutely do not give them her bank card and pin. If they steal any money, there's nothing you can do.

I would have a chat with the care agency about the asking for card and pin. Is this something that the agency does or is it something the carer is doing off their own back? Some agencies are very strict about carers using clients cards as it opens the agency and their workers up to accusations. Others allow carers to use clients cards but insist that they are carers cards, receipts and copies taken and there is a paperwork trial. Unfortunately there are also some very unscrupulous carers around (the high staff turnover, short staffed nature or the job and vulnerable clients makes it a very attractive career for some who are unscrupulous).

If the agency are happy to for carers to use cards then I suggest getting either a revolut/ Monzo/ starling card as PP have suggested and top it up with a small amount of money and monitor it. Or approach the bank about a carers card - quite a few high street banks do offer them.

I know (from the elderly social café we run at our church) a few caring agencies round us have started asking for cards if they are doing food shops for people as all the supermarkets round is have installed self serve card only tills and only having 2 normal tills open. Meaning there are huge queues for the normal tills but the self serve are card only.

as others have said you will not be covered by any bank for claiming for fraud if you have disclosed your PIN and let someone else have access to your card. You will be deemed to have been negligent.

Who the hell is asking for a PIN number! Report to the agency asap!

As everyone has said, get a serrated account that can’t be overdrawn like a kids account and low amounts. They have asked to commit a crime

https://www.actionforcarers.org.uk/news/paying-for-shopping-safely/

YANBU. I work in the courts and have seen many cases of carers helping themselves.

It often starts because they are struggling financially and ‘borrow a few quid’ with the intention of paying it back, then spirals.

Handing over the card and PIN leaves your mum AND the carer vulnerable. If she loses track of her finances the finger could point to the carer, rightly or wrongly.

I have worked with carers over the years and know that this is not right. It’s receipts and cash payment for the amount. Never ever ever give out your/ anyones PIN number or bank card to anyone. The fact the carer/s are happy to do this / asking for this is wrong and goes against all that they are taught and is a massive red flag. It’s also alarming that they may be asking this of clients , that don’t have anyone to advocate for them. If they are willing to do this with your mum … what are they doing to other clients.

Isn't it illegal?

I don't think it is technically illegal.

My brothers carers also use his bank card.

It doesn't sound right at all.

But I think they can argue that it goes under "caring"

Definitely just leave cash and ask for receipts.

My mum put her trust in a carer with her card and PIN. This carer ended up stealing £500 from her. Despite a police investigation and the carer being caught on the cash machine camera withdrawing the money, the carer got away with it because she blamed my mum's poor memory that she had given the money to my mum. She absolutely hadn't, my mum was wheelchair bound so wouldn't even need/spend that amount of cash in hand.

Disgusting to think that 'carer' is probably still in care.

Seconding the Starling "helping out" card. It's brilliant as you know every time it has been used (this is also the case for the main account that it's attached to, so very easy to keep track of transactions). I use it to give to my kids to go to the shops, but it's designed for exactly this type of thing.

Do a pre loaded card? That seems a sensible compromise between practicality and safeguarding

My mum used to go to a Day Centre after she had a stroke.
One of the carers used to take mum to the cash machine then offer to actually draw money out for her as it was easier than mum trying to do it from her wheelchair.
It was later discovered she was drawing 2 lots of money out, one for mum one for her.
Sadly the police couldn't prosecute as mums memory was sketchy and I think because she had handed her card and pin over it would be tough yo prove.
She was let go by the centre though.

Do not hand over the bank card and pin under any circumstances. A former staff member of mine was sent to prison for steal over £30,000 from a vulnerable adult that he supported. I had no idea ! He used to take the card and while getting shopping would also withdraw money. This happened over a period of 6 years so it took a while for anyone to notice. There are other ways for people to shop for your mum.

I was a carer for many years and we used to have cash tins with a float in it and we would use that for shopping and then add the receipts into the tin. This always worked out.

Can be... but won't necessarily be.

There will be people out there who have no clue what it is like to be on a min. wage, low income, running out of money actually meaning the bank account reads zero.

Those people may say 'Oh, I've no money left this month' but what they mean is they've spent what they generally ear-mark for outgoings, they still have hundreds or more in a current account, they still have thousands in savings.

And so they do not understand that when they fail to repay someone the £5 or £10 or £30 within minutes, they are causing that person actual distress and financial problems.

I've been there, I have had people agree to pay on the day, agree to my T's and C's and then come payment time, attempt to pay by cheque (nope, we don't do cheques, thats in the info you were sent when you booked..) and then offer a bank transfer... and then take days or in some cases, weeks, to do that.

So yeah in a carers shoes, absolutely no WAY would I be spending my own money in the hopes I'll get it back promptly, or at all.

OP - I think a pre-paid card is the way forward but I would have a word with the care company and ask if this is normal policy, as asking for a service users card and PIN is really dodgy territory.

Boundaries.

No care company should be allowing this. Are they a CQC registered agency or are they more of a "home help" organisation? If ots a CQC registered company, report them.

My MiL has a care company to do her shopping. We live 6 hours away so can't leave cash. DH has set up a pre pay card, there's never more than £200 on it and the care workers use that. They then take a photo of the receipt and add it to her electronic care record so DH can check what's been bought. The system works really well.

Just get them a revolut card and only have small amount of money on it

I'd stop that straightaway. The cards mentioned on this thread are a good idea.

My Dad's carers did - but they were a small, private company set up by a woman known to our family. They sent photos of receipts to my brother who had financial PoA and he paid direct to the carer.

Leave a preloaded card like Revolut that you can easily top up and they must get receipts for every single thing.

I have a couple of self employed carer clients and they buy minor things themselves and then add to the bill for reimbursement and always provide the receipts.

My aunt and mother had power of attorney over my grandmother and in the end set up a small seperate account that they put £100 in each week so they could give a card to the carer but they did not have access to her main account. My aunt was once a carer herself. Like you My mum had her reservations and wished to use cash but the issue is that carers are often doing this for multiple people so it is easier to have a card than have various amounts of cash. They also requested that all receipts were placed in an envelope, so that my aunt could see rough expenditure over the week and could make sure they were putting thr ight amount I the account