School Uniforms?

[tearsandtiaras]

My socials are currently filled with anxious posts about being able to afford the correct uniform required for their children.

ND children who won't wear it- parents are anxious how this will be received.

I myself have had sleepless nights considering the cost with zero support from DD father. With added worry that as a full time worker I cannot access the uniform shop in opening times- which offers no option to click/ collect.

I work with families/ children/ teenagers daily- uniform is consistently an adder stressor to their lives.

I cannot understand why in 2024 when most office workers wear smart casual- we inflict this on to our children/ parents. Uniform is outdated.

Aibu?

@llamajohn it doesn't matter if I bought it in May or August - I still had to buy it. Poor quality, badly fitting horrible clothes.
To be honest it wasn't the expense I had issues with - it was the stupid idea of blazers and ties on tiny children and the pettiness/fuss they made if a child came in wearing white socks instead of grey.
My daughter left the school years ago now. They had a terrible Ofsted a couple of years after she left. Loads of parents were pulling their children out.
They have now relaxed the uniform a lot. They can even wear those check dresses in summer now - my daughter's era weren't even allowed to take of their ties when it was a heatwave.
Maybe the bad Ofsted made them re think their priorities.

This.

A mufti day took a couple of weeks planning to get the outfit right.

Secondary kids are doing a 'desk job' so therefore should be dress accordingly and smart.

@RuthW loads of the lessons at secondary aren't sat at a desk.
Art, DT, PE, Drama, Dance, Music, Cooking.
Science is usually a lab so ties are not very practical.

Rubbish, they're not doing anything of the sort. Even if they were, most people at my 'desk job' don't wear the sort of uncomfortable, inflexible and old fashioned crap that schools expect kids to put up with.

And no angst here whatsoever about non-uniform days.

How will they manage when they go to Uni. It sounds like they need more practice!

My GCs school has now got stricter on PE kits because they've noticed how the behaviour of the boys drops considerably when wearing their football kits etc. Their uniform are polos and nothing has to be logo'd.

I've never seen the point in uniform - most of Europe doesn't bother and behaviour is no different, if not better, in most countries. Children also don't compete about clothing the way they do over here if there is a non-uniform day, because it's nothing special, so while some are more stylish than others, anything too extreme would usually be ridiculed enough it becomes a one-off learning experience for the child.

I hate having to police shirts being tucked in, ties, blazers to be on, skirts being too short. I'd like to start the day on a positive note with my students but I cannot, because the second they leave my classroom without following expectations they'd be pulled up on it (and so would I) and numerous learning walks mean I cannot even give them a bit more freedom in my own classroom. That's not even counting break duty. Instead of being able to have positive interactions with students I'm forever having to remind them about their shirts.

Just let them be comfortable!

DT’s have never wore school uniform (neither have their cousins in US, Belgium and France). No policing of uniform needed nor behaviour issues. It’s a UK uniform school problem.

I do a desk job in the NHS. In summer I wear floral skirts and dresses and sandals, colourful tops and sport blue hair. In winter I wear knee length knit dresses in a range of colours, tights with and without patterns woven in (think toadstools, pumpkins, skulls, snowflakes, cats) and floral print laceup boots. My hair tends to be purple. Nobody gives a damn because I am good at my job.

If we have official visits, I'll go corporate. The rest of the time it just isn't necessary. Some people need to come in out of the 19th century.

I work in financial services and on Thursday I wore barrel leg jeans, a stripey top and Converse. Nobody cares. My boss is the MD and he mostly wears a Bath rugby shirt!

I have a child starting at secondary school next week. He is a good lad who hates being in trouble, especially at school. The school website asks for at least five items that have to be the specific logoed ones from the school supplier. They say that just because a shop sells something in their school uniform section, it does not mean it meets the school's requirements. They also say that they are the final arbiters of what is acceptable. They put a child in isolation all day for incorrect uniform.

Most young people want to follow the rules and have as easy a time at school as possible. The majority of parents want to make life at school as easy as possible for their children. I think schools should try harder to work with families to allow this to happen.

Why do British pupils who are at a uniform school have such difficulties when those at non uniform schools around the world don’t?

I have sympathy - dd was a rule follower and the rules at school were not always easy to follow and she found herself at times accidentally going wrong and being punished - which she found upsetting. The thing is because the school were so silly about rules and dd was a stickler - we used the situation to encourage her to relax about rule following - target one detention a year, so she wouldn't feel so anxious, and detentions weren't so bad, the world didn't end - encouraged her to say no to teachers to give her the confidence to say no to authority. She managed to say no a few times over small things and got two detentions and we celebrated her non-compliance - not exactly rebel status but it did help her feel less anxious.
We all have different aspects of personal development to work on - being a rule follower can be a big source of anxiety to many kids and learning to break rules is liberating for them.

I come from a country where we don’t wear school uniform, and kind of find it oddly fascinating how the British regard uniform so importantly (for want of a better word)

However, I did move here in my teens so I did wear uniform (in the early noughties) back then, it was trousers or skirt, white polo t shirt and a school sweater. Now, it’s all blazers, shirts and ties and that is what I don’t understand.

If you insist on uniform, for all the reasons the British think it’s needed, why not make it as comfortable and practical as possible? Just polos and school sweaters. Why on earth are we even thinking that some schools have children as young as 5 in shirts and ties? It’s completely non sensical.

They don’t look smart. Children aren’t meant to look smart. They look like mini politicians. Also, how many women actually wear ties in the workplace? I don’t see how it helps them be ready for the real world. If when they’re adults, the profession they choose requires them to wear those clothes, then that’s when they wear them.

What is the reason for ties?? Can anyone explain?

Another thing I would add, is that people often say the uniform thing is to reduce bullying. So they all look the same. But has it really done that?? Because in my experience, you can still tell at school who has the ‘best’ clothes and trainers etc. by the school shoes they wear, bag they carry, coat if the school allows one, the trainers for PE, what they wear on non uniform days etc. If anything, I think it’s even more obvious. At school in my home country, the kids just wear comfy clothes. They’re pretty much all in jeans, leggings t shirts and hoodies. There is definitely more individuality on show, but that’s almost celebrated. Rather than have all children lining the same, we have them all looking different and being themselves. I don’t think there is any less / more bullying from not wearing uniform.

It's so much easier to have uniform than thinking what to wear each day. But it should be non specific as far as possible.
My daughter in infants has to wear a grey dress or skirt, grey socks or tights, a white polo shirt and a royal blue jumper. And royal blue tracksuit/shorts with a royal blue t shirt and jumper. Can be plain or school logo. Without logo's can get it all for under £40. Juniors are same but have to wear a white shirt with tie which is £6.

I remember being grateful for having school uniforms in this country as it meant I didn't have to worry about being 'caught' wearing the same few 'outfits' over and over again! It also meant non-uniform days were a novelty, but even then I remember one of my friends saying "could've guessed what you were going to wear today".

The other weird thing - for such a wet country - they aren't allowed to wear boots - even the boys weren't allowed to wear ankle boots under their trousers - it's bloody bonkers - no doubt things will change but schools are slow to progress, all that education doesn't always mean they are progressive. They dig their heels in and resist change - tradition till the end - regardless of reason. I often find that both baffling and worrying.

Absolutely agree! My daughter got a detention for taking off her blazer when she was feeling hot… as they’re only allowed to take them off when the teacher gives them permission in hot weather. Baffling that the teacher knows how my daughter feels better than my daughter does isn’t it!!

Ah yes the crazy blazer rule is a relative newcomer - in the 80's we were judged to be responsible enough to determine how hot we were - kids these days don't have the skills, they definitely need a teacher to tell them - poor buggers - when will they learn the basics.

Ours are allowed to wear plain matt lace up or zip up boots, like kicker boots. No heels, no patterns or decorations. Girls school shoes in particular are not great in winter as don't cover whole foot. Boys shoes do tend to cover whole foot but they can wear similar to girls - a matt plain lace up boot

Yet they consistently say that they’re preparing them for the ‘real world’ and giving them independent life skills….

I'm unsure which option to vote for as I agree with your concerns but not your method of solving them.

I think uniform is a good thing. It's good for work mindset, a sense of belonging and pride and it's a great leveller. As a child who grew up in extreme poverty, I dreaded mufti days. Having to go to school in my own clothes every day would have been my idea of Hell.

Uniform needs to be affordable (whilst bearing in mind that parents are having to buy less "normal" clothes while their children wear uniform) and easily obtained.

I was SHOCKED to see someone say on a different thread that a blazer for a 7 year old was costing £140. That is completely unacceptable when I got mine for an 11 year old for £38.

I am also unsure what these "uniform shops" people on mumsnet talk about are. There's nothing like that round here. All our schools just have the compulsory logoed bits you order through their website 365 days of the year and then you just buy the generic bits from supermarkets or wherever. These uniform shops sounds really impractical.

So I would say fix the uniforms and uniform buying process, not eliminate uniforms

The British have a strange fetish for style over substance. They believe that for a child to grow into a functioning adult in the workplace, the child must wear ridiculous, uncomfortable clothes for the entirety of their school years. If this doesn't happen, the world as we know it will come to an end. Uniform, according to the British, has mythical, magical properties: it prevents bullying, improves educational achievement and saves a ton of money.

This means that there are two possible conclusions to be drawn:

1. British kids are fundamentally different from kids in countries where there is no uniform. They are so stupid that they need 12 years to learn that when you go into work, you need to dress appropriately for that particular workplace.
2. It's all bullshit.

I've seen nothing so far to suggest that option 1 is in any way plausible.

I was so annoyed about girls shoes having "holes" in them in every shop. Bloody wall-to-wall dolly shoes with impractical straps exposing half the foot. We walk to school. She needs her feet covered.
I got these from ASDA in the end but they had to be ordered online. The supermarket itself was just full of the impractical "pretty" ones. I don't want to have to order online, I need to know they fit!

Drives me mad, it's so sexist.

direct.asda.com/george/school/girls-school-shoes-trainers/black-patent-butterfly-light-up-cupsole-school-shoes/GEM1118144,default,pd.html?cgid=D10M20G1C3