October budget going to be painful

[increasinglyconcerned]

Here we go..... I knew it. Labour were promising not to hike our taxes in the election campaign and here we are.... apparently they discovered £22 billion black hole in his first weeks in the role and it's not his fault.

Let me guess, those of us who earn six figures and already pay 45% will pay EVEN more and take home even less. It's the hard workers who will take the brunt. What's the point in working anymore!

I earn a little over £120k and I'm taxed the same as those earrings £500k.

Before people jump in saying they don't feel sorry for me, I work full time to support my family, as of January I will have 2 DCs in nursery, plus my mortgage and get ZERO free hours childcare, whilst they keep promising free childcare but I just pay more for everyone else to benefit.

I cannot afford to pay more taxes to fix this country and especially when so many people are getting a free ride and not paying their way, ranging from millionaires with tax havens to those claiming benefits dishonestly.

ifs.org.uk/articles/how-could-chancellor-raise-more-tax

@spikeandbuffy24 and me too! Secondary cancer and a brutally induced menopause, are the reasons why I am a TA now and not a teacher. I have a degree and a PGCE. I have volunteered endlessly through treatment with cancer and still remain in employment. I could say " fuck it, let the state pay for me, I'm too sick to work" But no, I get out of bed and do my job. Okay it isn't a high earning job, but I acknowledge that I no longer have the capacity to do a potentially stressful job.

It was always going to be painful whoever won. We live beyond our means and want Scandinavian welfare and services with American level taxes. Productivity is poor due to a combination of underinvestment by companies, poor customer service and many people wanting to do the minimum. Brexit obviously hasn’t helped either.

Quite a lot of people seem to want Scandinavian welfare - but only for them - with Scandinavian level taxes - but only for others!

Whilst this is true, why do companies under invest? why do workers do the minimum? why did we vote for Brexit?

Leadership, the lack of from our politicians, our management and quite honestly too many people easily led.

I look at Labour and the statements so far and think nothing much will really change.

Workers do the minimum because so many companies treat low paid staff like shit.

Exactly!

Who caused the black hole? The Tories keeping high earners, corporate tax dodgers and Michelle Mone happy.

You won't be taxed at the same rate.... do you have a Tax Free Allowance - because the OP won't have one - therefore she starts paying tax at 20% from the first £1 she earns...... and that winds up at a marginal rate of almost 60% when she hits £125k. Taxing CGT and IHT will do nothing but hit those who are savers and trying to prepare for their retirement so as not to be a burden on the state. Perhaps you should also be cross at the more than 9 MILLION NEETS - not in employment / education or training..... don't tell me that they are all incapable of working - of course there are people there unwilling to work and GP's complicity signing off sick notes every two weeks - fine tax the more well off but focus on getting people back to work also - and not just on minimum wage so they are not paying tax and still getting benefits but proper tax payers. The average person in the UK pays just £6k tax each year - the top 1% of earners pay 29% of the entire tax bill for the UK - so yes you may slag off the OP - but without people like her the Government would need to borrow a lot more money and the economy would be in a far worse state and everyone would suffer. If those top earners get fed up they will most likely leave the UK and then the tax take at that high top end will start to fall.... and then you will feel it when public services cease to function.

They created 10bn of that with pay rises for Junior Doctors...... which I'm fine with - but it's not a 20bn black hole when they created 50% of it

CGT will hit those selling houses bought to rent and businesses. It is right to tax this source of income properly.

There are not 9 million NEETs. That phrase refers to young people.
There are 9 million people economically inactive, most who do not claim benefits. This includes SAHM with well off partners, people who can afford to retire early, disabled people in care homes, people off long term sick with illnesses like cancer, people in psychiatric hospitals.
At least understand the group of people you are talking about.

At the risk of repeating myself, why didn't Hunt set aside funds for the Pay Review bodies his Govt they themselves commissioned to come up with public sector pay?

Why did he fund NI cuts with public service cuts which Labour wont do?

He set a "trap" for Labour but in reality, he has just helped damage the country.

I completely agree. Rachel Reeves was also apparently 'unaware' of the £47 billion committed in compensation on top of this so that makes a £67 billion black hole in total.

"They created 10bn of that with pay rises for Junior Doctors...... which I'm fine with - but it's not a 20bn black hole when they created 50% of it"

But the Conservatives were going to have find £7 bn to fund pay increases if they had been reelected.

"There's a row over whether the £22bn blackhole figure used by Reeves is fair, given £9.4bn is from Lab gov's decision to implement public sector pay recommendations

Useful context: Under Hunt, HMT thought it would have to spend up to £7bn on pay rises..

1/"

x.com/harryyorke1/status/1818280623368519864?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

Yes some people are obtuse, same ones who blame Labour for the 21bn black hole, its almost like they get their opinions from Tory HQ.

Less than 300k NEET's in the UK & the number is falling.

There are 53% of households receiving benefit of some kind in the UK - or 20 million people - and while it does include pensioners who should receive the max - it's not sustainable going forward with an ageing population and people living longer and care home costs - loads of employers say they cannot find the staff or people accept a job and simply don't turn up on Day 1..... this country has been dumber down for so long education wise - it was only a matter of time before it came to the Financial world. This government just wants us to work month to month - not gain assets to pass on to any future generation - thus helping them for the future - and we will all live a miserable existence in our old age - voting in populist corrupt governments who make promises they can't keep....... for the first time in my life - I am actively planning my retirement out of this country..... it's already in the toilet and someone has their hand on the flusher!

I wouldn’t go as far that not working doesn’t « affect the life » of the one choosing that path.

@DoodleDoo37 yeap you got that right, it is planned that people work and need to work for a living and can’t « pass on » any wealth ensuring that their children will have to work for a living. By living I mean : buy food and have roof above your head.

There clearly is a problem with transparency.

I feel for HMT officIals. The rules precluded them sharing spending pressures with Ms Reeves ahead of the Election; the current framework precluded them discussing the realism of spending plans with the OBR. The changes to the OBR charter announced today are a big step forward.

x.com/nickmacpherson2/status/1817954976125333703?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

Nick is right.. Jeremy Hunt would have been apoplectic if HMT officials had shared their view of spending pressures with the Shadow Chancellor before the election as he suggested (unless he authorised it...)

x.com/jillongovt/status/1817955763370754311?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

We probably need a body who can provide independent calculations on all political manifestos and who have oversight of current budgetary issues.

I sympathise OP. Obviously don’t quit your job. You’re working for the longer term benefit, building a career path and pension savings and setting a good example for your DC.

Do consider dropping your earnings to £99,990 via pension salary sacrifice. Do the net pay calculator first, you probably won’t be much worse off than keeping your current gross to £120k!!

It’s galling seeing my payslip every month. I don’t understand universal credit and why earnings are topped up. I’ve lived in other countries where this doesn’t happen. People cut their cloth based on their earnings, but that doesn’t seem to happen in the UK.

We’ve got a relative who’s a benefit scrounger. DH’s cousin has “anxiety”. She’s 42 years old and hasn’t worked for the past 14 years and lives free. I’d really like to say “suck it up buttercup, keep trucking and get your ass back to work to pay for your DCs”. The governments have enabled this farce. Things like the budget don’t impact her.

I don't really feel that people earning a lot of money work harder than those earning basic wage. It's a different level.of work but those on 20k or whatever will also feel they work blimmin hard too.
I earn a medium salary (I thought was decent til came on mumsnet) (45k), single, one child and no support. I doubt I work less hard.
I would love to earn 100k and pay more tax and have my own house and a lot more take home than now.

I sympathise OP. Obviously don’t quit your job. You’re working for the longer term benefit, building a career path and pension savings and setting a good example for your DC.

Do consider dropping your earnings to £99,990 via pension salary sacrifice. Do the net pay calculator first, you probably won’t be much worse off than keeping your current gross to £120k!!

It’s galling seeing my payslip every month. It does make you wonder at some point of the career ladder why you don’t stall.

I’ve lived in other countries where universal credit etc doesn’t happen. People cut their cloth based on their earnings, but that doesn’t seem to happen in the UK, so it does feel painful to be a higher tax payer.

We’ve got a relative who’s a benefit scrounger. DH’s cousin has “anxiety”. She’s 42 years old and hasn’t worked for the past 14 years and lives free. I’d really like to say “suck it up buttercup, keep trucking and get your ass back to work to pay for your DCs”. The respective governments have enabled this farce. Things like the budget don’t impact her.

Also…why people are still unaware of how the gov just keep and digging more debt to stay afloat…litterally passing on the debt to the next ones or general collapse is beyond me.

i mean. We are deep in now and no solution in sight as first time in history countries are facing this.

CGT is already paid when selling assets - just at a lower rate - currently 28% for selling a second home but only 18% for shares (whose companies often do way more global damage than a landlord - think Shell / BP Shareholders who fund companies to destroy our planet)...... Labour are talking about bringing CGT in line with Income Tax - which will massively depress the rental market and investment market - if you're a higher earner you will pay 45% tax on gains - so let's say Landlords get fed up and sell their rental properties - which they are doing in vast numbers already - what's going to happen the private rental market? When demand massively outstripps supply - what then? I'll tell you what will happen - rents will rise massively - and it will be like Dublin where 500 on average queue up to rent 1 room in a house share....... be careful what you wish for - the best of plans are full of unintended consequences!

The problem is not the taxes, the problem is that the benefits are not equally distributed. Nurseries should be free for all working parents so that people can go back to work, irrespective of salaries. All levels of workers are needed for the country to run. People who are able and don’t work should pay for nursery. And this should apply to all other similar services.